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Thinking of starting a new game with the following criteria
04/27/2015, 13:11:44

    The Rock writes:

    Hi everyone,

    I love MM6 and played through it many times already. This time, I want to try something new for me: 4 druids, each can only learn and master one elemental school and one self school, no master NPC, no reloading, and must clear the game sequentially (no TPing around getting goodies from high level places and purchasing high level magic). There is no other restriction.

    I think this would be a fun way to add some challenge to the game for all phases of the game. Spellcasters are weak early on, but insane later game. With my setup, I will have a weakish party throughout the game since I won't have access to dark/light and only have 1 character for each school.

    Because of the limited skills, I will also have to rely on some unconventional spells such as mass fear. I hope by having high skill points in Earth and Self spells, I can make these useful.

    What do you guys think?






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I think this sounds like a delightful challenge!
04/27/2015, 15:43:44

    Bones writes:

    Essentially what you're doing is testing how well the game designers balanced and scaled the Elemental and Self skills. That alone would make it interesting. The 'no Master NPCs', 'sequential only' and 'no re-loading' rules are going to make it a worthy personal challenge, but that's fair compensation for knowing what to expect in each dungeon and map.

    Good luck! Please tell us how it goes.





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Sounds like a good challenge...
04/27/2015, 16:02:15

    Xanax writes:

    What exactly do you mean by 'sequentially only?' Could you give some examples of what would be non-sequential? Also, what qualifies as a master NPC? (I feel like I should know that but I can't think).

    I've played through the game dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of times but somehow never played a druid. I ought to give it a try.





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Oh, never mind about masters. I know what you mean.
04/27/2015, 16:05:59

    Xanax writes:





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Sequential
04/27/2015, 16:34:42

    The Rock writes:

    I have some some speed-running of this game, where I skip every non-mandatory quest, teleport to Dragonsand for NWC dungeon and shrine of god, then abuse game master until I get master Water etc.

    By beating the game sequentially and not hiring master NPC, I want to not exploit NWC dungeon, Shrine of God, early Stable price fixing quest, etc.

    I think this makes the game closer to what the developer intended and also make it much more challenging since I won't have access to a lot of gold or spells until I clear out the 4 starting locations (New Sorpigal, Ironfist, Mist and Eel Infested Waters).





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Eel infested?
04/27/2015, 17:42:14

    Xanax writes:

    You sure you didn't mean Bootleg Bay? You can't get to eel infested without going to Silver Cove first. I was thinking your order then bootleg then Free Haven.

    At any rate, I'm giving this a try. I was playing a 4 wizard game (taking every advantage). This sounds like a nice challenge. I did take the stables to Ironfist to get bow skill and bows; I hope that's not non-sequential.





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D'oh! Yes I mean Bootleg Bay
04/27/2015, 19:21:11

    The Rock writes:

    Guess I am more rusty than I thought! This will be a good challenge




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I remember . . .
04/28/2015, 04:11:04

    Peter2 writes:

    . . . when I played MM6 for the first time, I was exploring the west of Ironfist, and I blundered across the border into Mire of the Damned. I departed a Damned sight faster than I entered, pursued by a horde of ghosts and skeletons. After a long trek back to the Temple to get my characters uncursed and my dead sorcerer Raised, I returned to the west of Ironfist, went north instead of west, and found the cannibals etc. in Bootleg Bay a lot easier to cope with.

    I should add that I'd also received a severe drubbing in Corlagon's Estate. The only places in Ironfist that I managed to cope with on my first visit were the Temple of Baa and Dragoons' Caverns, and I found neither of those easy.





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Thank you guys for the interest! I will definitely keep you all posted on my progress!
04/27/2015, 16:27:53

    The Rock writes:





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I'd love to compare notes. I'm not quite following your rules...
04/28/2015, 09:06:52

    Xanax writes:

    I will stick to the sequential and no master NPC's, but I'm not sure yet about restricting magic to one each - don't know if I can live without all my fire magic - going without light and dark will be quite a challenge in itself.

    As noted I never played a druid before and I realize now that it's been years since I played a game without skipping a lot of stuff early on (or even altogether). I just finished clearing everything in New Sorpigal - geez, there are a lot more spiders and snakes in the abandoned temple than I remembered and that took a long time. Headed to Mist next I think.





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I'm a firm believer in all these games of leaving nothing hostile alive when I quit an area *evil grin*.
04/28/2015, 12:52:27

    Peter2 writes:





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Update: This is hard.
04/28/2015, 21:09:15

    Xanax writes:





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But it's doable.
04/29/2015, 04:59:48

    Peter2 writes:

    Your key ability is that your party can run faster than anything else. That means that you can sprint to a place of safety to rest and heal, and as long as you don't cross a location boundary, the hostiles don't heal, so that you can return and continue the demolition job.

    That's not to mention shooting at things from across a river, the "shoot'n'scoot" technique, and other tricks like that.





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Of course you're right,
04/29/2015, 17:35:58

    Xanax writes:

    It's just been a long time since I tried to do this much at low levels. New Sorpigal took a lot of time but wasn't that bad. Mist was pretty easy, but in Bootleg Bay I spent more time running away and healing than I did fighting (also couldn't open the chests without them blowing up). After clearing Ironfist I kind of fudged a little by going to Free Haven and doing the Cavalier quest (also cleared about 2/3 of the outdoor areas there).

    I'm level 14 now and just finished the 3 dungeons in Ironfist. Temple of Baa took me 4 game days and lots and lots of trips. I did go ahead and give fire to all my characters. This would be 3 times as hard without that, so I'm not going to compare my efforts to those of the Rock. This is enough of a challenge for me.





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That sounds like an interesting challenge — go to it!
04/27/2015, 19:23:56

    Peter2 writes:

    And please keep us posted about how you get on. I think I remember years ago, when somebody beat the game with a party of four knights. That was interesting as well — they spent a fortune on magic scrolls.




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Part 1 – Character Creation and Brainstorming
04/29/2015, 13:36:44

    The Rock writes:

    So I started yesterday, and first thing I need to figure out is how to determine which druid gets which combination of spells. Since there are 4 elemental and 3 self schools, one of my druids will only have 1 elemental school.

    For spells, I find self magic to be utility based and do not benefit as much as elemental spells for damage, so I plan to leave them at expert level until elemental schools are mastered. For elemental, Fire and Air are the strongest offensively while Water is more utility based and Earth is rather tragic. However, since each character can only master one school, I will get Earth to see how strong it is early on with mass distortion and rock blast.

    For weapons, I think dagger and bow will make up some of my early offensive power, until I get more spell points and ranks in elemental magic.

    Generally, I find the self spells to be pretty weak and do not scale well with level, so my plan is to get master with them and leave them while focusing on elemental schools and bow, which will be my best offensive options.

    With other skills, I decided that everyone will get master bodybuilding, meditation and eventually repair items. For the other misc. skills, one character will focus on each of perception, identify items, disarm trap, and merchant.

    In the end, I decided on the following skill distribution:

    Druid 1 – Water, body, disarm trap
    Druid 2 – Fire, merchant
    Druid 3 – Air, spirit, identify items
    Druid 4 – Earth, mind, perception





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I would have done it slightly differently.
04/29/2015, 20:00:42

    Peter2 writes:

    I always thought that Water, Body, and Disarm were very important skills, and Earth, Mind and Perception were much weaker ones.

    I'd have given the first one Water, Merchant, and Perception, taken all 3 to expert as quickly as possible, and then concentrated on Water (to get Lloyd's Beacon and Town Portal at Master level) and next Merchant.

    I'd have given the second Fire and Body, again got both to expert and then concentrated on Body (for fast healing). When those were both done, I'd have switched to Repair.

    I'd have left the third as you had him, got all 3 skills to expert, and then concentrated first on Identify and then on Air (for Fly).

    I'd have given the fourth Earth, Spirit, and Disarm, and after raising all 3 to Expert, I'd have concentrated on Disarm, followed by Spirit (for Heroism).

    You obviously did it differently, but those would have been my choices.

    I completely agree with your decision to get them Bow early; I always thought it was the most important weapon in the game.





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To me, the three most important to master early on...
04/30/2015, 09:23:43

    Xanax writes:

    ...are merchant, disarm and water, so I would have separated those to 3 different characters. At least I would have done that if I'd actually thought it through. As it is I ended up putting disarm and water on the same character (and I wish I hadn't).

    You can live with Fly at expert level early on. And of course I agree about bow. This is pretty much an archery game early on.





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Totally agree about water and disarm, but I never rated merchant as high as those two.
04/30/2015, 09:36:28

    Peter2 writes:

    Possibly that's because I play the v1.0 game, and some of its features mean that money can be a bit easier to come by. But I totally agree that all characters should learn Merchant as quickly as possible.

    I did some work on that with one of the editors some years ago. Unfortunately, my notes no longer exist, but I do remember that the biggest single benefit (percentage-wise) was from learning the basic skill.





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Rationale for my setup
04/30/2015, 12:34:33

    The Rock writes:

    Thank you guys for your feedback. I agree with most of what you said, but I chose my setup with more late game consideration and the fact that I do not plan to exploit master town portal and lloyd beacon due to the "sequential" nature of the game.

    [b] Druid 1 – Water, body, disarm trap [/b]

    This is my utility character as both water and body scale badly with rank.

    I will level body and disarm trap to expert, then master disarm trap. I will then dump remaining skill points into water as I need at least some damage from this character. In a regular game, I would get master water first for its utility, but since I will plan sequentially, there is less need for it.

    [b] Druid 2 – Fire, merchant [/b]

    This is my main damage dealer as fire scales the best with ranking and has the only strong PBAOE skill I have access to. Therefore, I did not straddle this guy with a self magic, only merchant, which will be leveled after I reach fire master.

    [b]Druid 3 – Air, spirit, identify items [/b]

    Air is the second strongest offensive skill, so I paired it with spirit, which will only need to be level to rank 4 for master.

    [b]Druid 4 – Earth, mind, perception[/b]

    Earth is slightly better than water for damage dealing, and has major potential in the mid game when mass distortion actually affects enemies. Later on, most enemies will be immune to magic damage.

    Therefore, I paired Earth with mind and perception. Perception does not need to be leveled past expert 6-7 while mind is only needed for utility of telekinesis and restore status ailments, so expert is all I need.

    Furthermore, with telekinesis, I won't need disarm trap past rank 7 mastery as in the late game I will only open chests with it.


    Overall, my plan is to bow skill and some decent bows first, so that I can clear the first 5-6 places, then get offensive magic along with meditation and bodybuilding so that I can complete the early dungeon quests (less room to move around in dungeons so bow is less effective). I will then get master elemental magic for the middle game as well as expert self magic for utility.






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Sounds very interesting — please keep us posted.
04/30/2015, 13:47:40

    Peter2 writes:

    My main use for Lloyd's Beacon is to visit the Fountain of Magic for healing, and to save on time and money later in the game when a considerable amount of border-crossing is essential.

    Perception — there's one door, in the Superior Temple of Baa, I think, which needs a sky-high perception to be able to open, but it's not essential because you can get round behind it.





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Adding challenge to this game
04/30/2015, 15:25:42

    The Rock writes:

    I am purposely trying to make this play through harder haha, so I guess in some ways I am trying to limit the use of town portal and lloyd beacon.

    With these skills, healing becomes unnecessary since you are always just a few clicks away from healing at a temple. There is definitely more skills involved if these skills are taken out of the equation.

    For perception, I believe the requirement is like rank 8 expert, so with 1-2 NPC, it's doable with expert 4 perception.





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Yes, foregoing Lloyd's Beacon is a big advantage
04/30/2015, 16:14:53

    Xanax writes:

    In my game, I had just gotten to master water and realized that the game had changed completely with that. If you're not going to set beacons in dungeons then yes, you're in for a really long haul.

    I had kind of regretted giving everyone fire magic (makes everything too easy) and thought about starting over with a druid, paladin and two knights, but I had never considered giving up the beacons.

    Looking forward to more updates. Interesting approach.





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I meant 'disadvantage' of course.
04/30/2015, 16:59:55

    Xanax writes:





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Part 2 – New Sorpigal and Ironfist
04/29/2015, 13:45:31

    The Rock writes:

    After character creation, my characters found themselves magically teleported to New Sorpigal. They were overjoyed when they delivered some letter they found in their inventory to a guy at the tavern for 1000 gold. One druid accidentally knocked the wall of the bank and was rewarded with a fly scroll. The party decided to save it for the time being.

    They spotted an attractive blonde merchant near the temple and decided to retain her services for the foreseeable future as training and shopping will be costly.

    The party decided that they are far too weak to tackle even the wimpiest green goblins, so they took a carriage ride to Ironfist, where they were awarded a further 5000 gold for delivering a letter already in their inventory.

    The party decided to receive some bow training and purchased four crude looking bows before heading back to New Sorigal.

    Once arrived, they decided to clear the land of orcs and apprentice mages, but will leave the dungeons intact for now. After countless hours of fighting and inhaling liquids from the healing fountains, the party was tired and it was dark.

    Before heading to the inn to call it a night, the party visited the shady bucanner’s lair to learn some miscelleaous skills. The party also decided to test their chemisty skills. Fortunately, they have access to the Internet and was able to mix four essences of endurance, and four essences of accuracy.

    Next morning, the party cleared part of Goblinwatch and Abandoned Temple for two quests and then headed to the training academy. More awaits…





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I'm enjoying this. Please continue!
04/29/2015, 14:20:54

    Bones writes:





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Part 3 - clearing more lands with range attack
04/30/2015, 13:11:10

    The Rock writes:

    Fresh off the academy, my party put 4 points into bow each and expert disarm trap. Then I set off the finish the remaining of Goblinwatch and Abandoned Temple.

    Both were relatively straightforward, though there were some tricky parts where I needed run around to create distance for the bow. Unfortunately, my melee damage is 1 right now, with starting staves, but thankfully I have Magic Arrow from Earth!

    After turning in all of the quests, I headed to Ironfist again to get bodybuilding for everyone. Along the way, I hired a duper.

    Back to battle, and this time, to clear Ironfist of all follows of baa and lizard people as well as weird skeleton bats. Not why they were all chilling with each other rather than fighting among themselves. Who knew acolytes, lizard people and bats would make good friends?

    It took a while, but I eventually cleared all of Ironfist of baddies. I trained some more, and upgraded to expert bow (8000 bucks!)

    Next up, I will be visiting Mist for some more clearing of baddies and getting some basic elemental spells!





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Part 4 - Mist and beyond
04/30/2015, 17:33:06

    The Rock writes:

    We took a ship ride from Ironfist to Mist, where they get membership to air, water and fire, purchased water walk and meditation skill for 2 out of the 4 members (who did not get it from the start).

    We then spent the next day and half clearing Mist and surrounding islands of Acolytes and Gypsies. With so much room to maneuver and numerous rivers, it was quite safe and easy.

    We spoke with the conspicuously named Albert Newton before catching a ship to one of the smaller islands in Bootleg Bay. After sinking some points into Water Magic, we water walked our way to the main land and drink from the fountain of magic.

    We decided not to waste our first shrine bonus on Might as it does very little to help our mages. We will wait for February to do it in Mist.

    Bootleg Bay is considerably tougher to clear up due to the stronger ranged and magic attacks from the enemies, but we managed to clean it up without much trouble in a few days.

    Finally, we were on our way to Free Haven! As soon as we arrived, we were greeted by groups of pissed off journeymen and mages, no doubt from murdering hundreds of their apprentices.

    We ran like the wind to Osric Temper to get the quests before arriving finally in the town. We spent a few more hours running around to complete the knight promotion and to gather a few extra herbs.

    We decided to mix more black options (intellect, personality) before training once again. This allowed for master disarm training, as well as expert fire, air, and earth.





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I am *so* enjoying this - like playing it again myself. Keep it coming!
05/01/2015, 05:08:04

    Ossie writes:





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Part 5 - CRASH and new beginning
05/01/2015, 12:10:33

    The Rock writes:

    My computer was having some problems yesterday, so I decided to reinstall Windows. Long story short, I forgot to backup my game and lost the saved file.

    No matter! I reinstalled the game, this time with Greyface patch, and decided on a new equally challenging game of KKPA. I will start a new thread with my personal rules and restrictions.

    I look forward to creating regular updates and get through a lot of the game over the weekend!





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