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So, after several years of contemplating it, I've finally started MM8... (Random mumblings about my progress)
08/24/2022, 20:50:50

    Ramillies writes:

    ... and I must say that it has exactly the same charm as MM6 and 7 had. I'm currently 30-40 hours into the game and it feels much "quicker" than 6 & 7, but still, it has the feel of "I'll just go to get the Master Fire (or whatever)", "So now I will be able to clear that dungeon much more easily! I'll just do that", etc. I'll just get this, clear that, level up here, run around to get expertises and masteries, and suddenly it's 3 AM and I need to go to bed. Fortunately, it's still the time of summer vacations, and that holds for my PhD advisor as well, so I can sink a couple of days into the game .

    A couple of years ago, I wrote a couple of posts about my first MM7 game, and it seemed that at least some people liked to read that, so I'll try to do sort of the same with my first MM8. If it gets annoying, though, then you can of course tell me to stop .


    As per Peter's and Ossie's recommendations, I picked a Dark Elf as my main character (his (randomly generated) name is Tajos). After setting up stats a bit and picking two skills, I appeared on the Dagger Wound island just in front of some wagons. Of course I tried to click them first, so I immediately helped myself to a large load of fruit and similar stuff. After wandering a bit around the village, (and I must note that it seems to be much more "organic" or "chaotic" in comparison to e. g. New Sorpigal. I had some trouble navigating around. The towns of Jadame seem to favor "shopping malls" — one building with multiple entrances, each housing a different shop. Many times, I couldn't find stuff — I would just say: "OK, this house sells armor" and go further, not noticing that it has 3 more doors that sell weapons and magic and whatnot else) I was able to start the main quest line going, recruiting Devlin Arcanus and Frederick Talimere from their houses.

    After visiting the shops and outfitting the characters with at least the basic gear, I attempted to fight the pirates. Let's just say it didn't work out very well, so I continued strolling around the island, visiting more huts, going through portals and doing various fetch quests (like the Cure Disease scrolls). Eventually I would venture into the Abandoned Temple, welcome Simon Templar in our party and cheese my way through (e. g. in the very first big hall, I killed all of the couatls over the stairway railing). I liked that dungeon quite a lot. The spike pit trap in particular was very interesting (and useful; when I would later explore the "tree of little snake chambers", I would always open a chamber, run like bunny to the half-opened trap, and shoot the monsters from the other side. Sadly, when I left and came back again, the floor was back together), the only problem was that I didn't really understand which of the trapped plates was the "sixth" one (I only got it when looking at the Flamestryke's maps).

    By the way, I explored the temple quite thoroughly, so I found the circular room in the depths of the "tree of snake chambers", and looted the Prophecies of the Sun from it. And for a long time, I was really at a loss as to what the heck to do with it, because the lizard who wanted the snake prophecies didn't know anything about this one . Anyway, after returning a couple of times to rest (had to rest on grass because I couldn't find the tavern! I found it only later, just before going away) and fulfill various quests, I was ready for Ravenshore. So I boarded the ship and the real game started.

    It's quite interesting that what I was doing for the next few hours didn't feel very heroic. Blackmailing a poor man who has already been blackmailed by ogres? (And killing all of his guards on top of that?) Check. Killing all the wolves miles and miles around? Check. And why those centaurs insist so hard on being killed?

    I should also mention that for whatever reason, I employed a strict "one region at a time" strategy, which in the hindsight wasn't probably needed. I guess that, knowing how different power levels the regions had in MM6-7, I just thought that if there's only a couple of regions, there will be sharp increases in difficulty — which seems not to be the case. And while I appreciate that the game places marks on the map for you, and you can place your own, I still resorted to my MM7 custom of drawing maps by hand and writing each building's purpose into and around the buildings in tiny, almost illegible letters . Still, these hand-drawn maps (currently I have Ravenshore, Alvar and Shadowspire) are a great asset, because if you look for a certain teacher, for instance, you don't need to click all the 30+ markers one by one; you just need to give the map a good look.

    So I did whatever I could in Ravenshore and only after wiping out all monsters and dungeons, I would go to Alvar (the quest line wanted me to go there anyway). That was a material for quite some more hours. The first thing I stuck my nose in was the Dark Dwarf Compound — and the boulders chased me away in no time. Ouch! I had to resort to killing ogres. Visiting their fortress was quite a challenge, because you start surrounded by lots of ogres and mercenaries right when you enter (this forced me to make it a habit to hit Enter just after entering any new area). I even had to reload once because of total party wipeout. After surviving that initial chamber, the rest of the dungeon was quite easy though. Soon the whole place was robbed blind, the Arion's daughter saved and the ogres killed. Since I was able to obtain the Jump spell from the local guild, I felt in a good shape to do similarly with the wasps. I looted the tents nearby (Peter, when you were talking about those Jump scrolls, did you have these in mind?) and entered the hive (interestingly enough, I thought it would be high in the mountains, so I first jumped up the cliffs, cleared whatever was on top, and only then I was forced to look for it elsewhere... like in the place where it actually was).

    It's quite interesting how fast things can turn around in this dungeon. I was able to get up to the top without too much trouble, but going down was more tricky. At one occasion, I would accidentally fall down the hole into the lower floor, and that resulted in a total party wipeout, because I couldn't for the life of me (quite literally!) jump back up! Either a wasp was in the way, or I just didn't time it correctly (since I was in turn-based mode, it wasn't so easy). And the critters were shredding me in the meantime. I had more such slip-ups, but none of them proved so fatal (although I usually had to run away immediately).

    And finally, I was also able to (more or less) clear the Dark Dwarf Compound. Getting rid of those boulders was really hard, though, especially the top tier ones that could fire Rock Blasts (really dangerous bouncing through those corridors). I was quite relieved when the boulders were killed and I could battle some normal dwarves. I looted much of the place, but I wasn't able to cope with that rock-blast-trapped corridor. I found no way of switching the trap off and it couldn't be circumvented by jumping or "hugging the wall". The only thing I was able to devise was a "run like a bunny method" — run towards the next door as fast as possible, open it, rush inside, and only then get rid of the enemies. Loot the chests, aim for the next door in line, run as fast as possible and repeat. I was able to get up to the (first?) room that had a chest with an artifact (and I was able to get there only because it was possible to open the door right from the previous room; the dwarves wandered out and I could kill them before actually running in). The next door after that was way too far, and the trap way too close.

    I found this trap to be quite annoying, mainly because it just fires immensely powerful Rock Blasts at a crazy frequency. It feels quite over the top and needlessly ugly to the player. The only possible solution that I can think of is temporarily hiring a Vampire from an Adventure Inn and use its levitation spell, but I haven't done this yet. If you had any tips for circumventing this trap, I would like to hear them. By the way, I have no idea how many times I was reloading due to total wipeout in this horrible corridor.


    Anyway, this post is already quite lengthy. I will stop here for a moment and continue later with a part 2. I guess that I could be somewhere around the half of the game — I cleared the Ironsand Desert quite thoroughly, started building the alliance and saved the minotaurs. The battle of dragons versus dragon hunters is also more or less completed, and I guess I'll stuff these things into the part two. However, the Clerics vs. Necromancers is still to be decided, and I haven't visited any of the elemental planes yet. Nor have I visited Regna (I thought it would be reachable by ship, but it looks like it is not, so I'll have to look for some other way — perhaps a tunnel, or a lot of tunnels, like in MM7?)





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Aaand by the way, I have a historical question that some of you will probably be able to answer...
08/24/2022, 20:57:27

    Ramillies writes:

    It's no wonder that I found the Tomb of Lord Brinne in Ravenshore. Could someone explain who he was and why does he have an in-game tomb? And was he connected with these Taverns?

    There are some people standing in the tomb, and some of their names sound familiar, like Chlala... Just wondering about connection between all of those people. I would be glad if someone could shed some light on it.





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Lord Brinne, et al
08/25/2022, 12:08:08

    The Elf writes:

    (Peter probably knows all this better than I, but here goes
    The late Lord Brinne was a generous person who frequented many game-help type websites. (Peter probably knows his real name, which I don't remember.) He is also remembered in Elder Scrolls Morrowind, with a magical ring(?) hidden in a tomb named for him. The others (Flamestryke and Chlala, for example,) are/were TELPers from this very tavern.

    There are a lot of "Easter Eggs" in MM8, all of which can be found with diligent searching. (Somewhere, in a LARGE Amazon carton, I've probably got a list of them. At any rate, their co-ordinates can be found by searching the trees and (I believe,) shrubbery. "Clue greenery" are described slightly differently from regular greenery when you mouse over them. IIRC, some even have hidden goodies in them.

    Hope this helps!





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It's coming back (somewhat)
08/25/2022, 17:42:40

    The Elf writes:

    I believe the Easter eggs are pretty much confined to the map that contains Lord Brinne's Tomb. IIRC, mousing over the trees and shrubs will give a description (tree, shrub.) At any rate, the description for most of the greenery will be all one font, but some will be be another font. Something like all caps vs. all lower case or all Roman vs. all italics. The oddball-font trees will either yield an Easter egg (potion, gold, etc.) or yield a co-ordinate where such a goodie might be found--I don't remember which. (It's been over 20 years since I've played it. Heavens! How time flies.)
    Incidentally, Flamestryke or somebody posted co-ordinates for all the Easter egg trees in the MM8 Tavern, but somehow I doubt that the archives are large enough to go back to 2001.




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Thanks!
08/26/2022, 17:27:44

    Ramillies writes:

    I do know about Chlala etc., who have been (still are?) members of this tavern, but the name Lord Brinne was unfamiliar to me.

    I already happened upon some of those "hidden goodies" — they differ from the normal trees, rocks etc. in the fact that their name is capitalized, e. g. Tree, Rock etc. One of those even had an artifact in it!

    I guess that Peter as a well-known diligent searcher will know about many of them; I've found only a few.





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Funeral attendees
08/26/2022, 20:04:34

    The Elf writes:

    Many of the people in Lord Brinne's tomb (ostensibly attending his funeral) are old-timers here in the Tavern. I can't remember all their names--as I said, it's been about 20 years. Wasn't the original disk for Win 95/98?




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Lord Brinne
08/28/2022, 16:48:28

    Peter2 writes:

    I was an occasional lurker in the early MM6 Tavern, but in those days, my link to the net was by a telephone modem and it cost a small fortune to use, so my visits were VERY time-limited. I didn't actually post anything until I got a broadband connection. So I saw the names, but that's all.

    Lord Brinne was the handle of Bill Iburg, a Might and Magic fan from way back who was active on the 3DO forums and, as Elf says was one of the world's nicer people. When he died during the development of MM8, the dungeon was created as a tribute to him. Other tributes in other games were:– his ashes can be found in Morrowind, his tombstone in Deus Ex, and his grave in Ultima IX: Ascension.

    The Tomb's Guardians are members of the Guild of the Wooden Flute. The Wooden Flute appeared originally in MM6, where it was nothing but a red herring (and the amount of effort it took to establish that!!!! . . .) but in this game, it is that key to the New Worlds Dungeon.

    I was at least acquainted with most but not all of the Guild, but pretty well the only two still active in the Taverns are Bones and Chlala. The one that I know we've lost was Flamestryke, often known as Flame. Her name was Erika Walters, and she was a truly great-hearted lady, from whom the milk of human kindness flowed in abundance. She had far more than her fair share of ill-health and ill-fortune, and I hope that the next life treats her more kindly than this one did. She died from breast cancer and its complications in April 2008. Another great guy we lost and with whom I got on very well was Zedd, but I cannot remember whether or not he was a member ofthe Guild.

    The Easter Eggs are all over the place. They are hidden in all sorts of places – trees, rocks, walls and so on. Just hover the cursor over something. If its description is given in anything except lower case letters, there's something odd about it. Be careful, though, with some of them, you need certain abilities/skill levels to gain the benefit. Also, if there is NO description, that too means there is an Easter Egg.






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Oh, the flute here is actually good for something?!?...
08/28/2022, 21:19:09

    Ramillies writes:

    When I got it from there, I just thought "Good joke, and how nice of you to reference the 'flute quest' of MM6" and threw it away! Hopefully I'll still find it on the floor of the Merchant House in Ravenshore where I threw it away... (Fortunately I haven't thrown it into the water as I usually do with things I deem useless. I guess that it was labeled as a quest item and I was thinking "what if it was good for something after all".)

    And thank you for explaining who Lord Brinne was. I don't think I found Zedd standing guard in the tomb (but then I don't remember finding Bones and Flame there either). Flamestryke is a name that is definitely familiar to me, though I was never able to "meet" her (I think I've been visiting these Taverns only for the last 10 years, so roughly from 2012). If nothing else, her MM7 and MM8 websites have been quite helpful when I needed to look up or check some things.

    I managed to find some of those "easter eggs", but I guess I got only a small portion of them. I was able to obtain an artifact from a Tree in Ravenshore and another from the back of the Ogre Fortress in Alvar, though. And the Tree in Ravenshore that will quaff your potions and return empty bottles (and it didn't occur to me the first time I used it! I thought "oh, how generous it is of this tree to give me so many empty bottles!" It dawned on me only after I found all of my potions gone — good luck they weren't anything special.)





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I can't remember all of them now – or even most of them, but . . .
08/29/2022, 06:26:03

    Peter2 writes:

    . . . there's a good one in a boulder on the south side of the lava lake in Ironsand, and it's fairly close to it. Also, there's a buoy floating in the bay somewhere west of the Ravenshore Ghetto in Ravenshore which will give the highlighted character in your party some sort of benefit when you click on it – that's a one-shot, though. A third one is a road marker (those little pyramids) in Shadowspire which will give a minor bonues to a character who has 4 ranks in Repair, IIRC. I think it's at the eastern end of the E–W road from The Blood Bank to Crane Cottage.

    It's years since I played MM8, as you can probably tell! I'll see if I can find my notes and check if I made any record of the MM8 Easter Eggs.





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MM8 Easter Eggs
08/29/2022, 10:41:25

    Peter2 writes:

    I've found my notes. in the previous message, for "road marker" please read "Rune Post".

    Save your game before opening the Easter Eggs with goodies in, most of them a trapped.

    The Easter Eggs I know about are listed below:–

    Note:– “One-off” means works only once on the first high-lighted character to touch it

    Alvar
    Inner back wall of Ogre Fort (X -20’530, Y 2’845) Artifact or Relic plus misc others

    Tree (X -15’440, Y 19’600) Unlimited white potions NOTE need 7+ ranks in Repair

    Tree (X 14’705, Y -0’380) Simple ring NOTE need 5+ ranks in Repair

    Rock (City map X -4’200, Y 10’670) Simple objects + gold

    Dagger Wound Island
    Buoy (X 3’790, Y 18’650) 2 skill points NOTE One-off, needs 13+ Luck

    Buoy (X 11’140, Y 3’125) 5 skill points NOTE One-off, needs 20+ Luck

    Flower (X 18’765, Y 5.970) Simple ring NOTE needs 5+ ranks in Repair

    Tree (X 4’075, Y 7’965) DANGER! Empties a bottle on each click NOTE needs 3+ ranks in Repair

    Garrotte Gorge
    Flower (X 12’405, Y -8’025) Some object + gold

    Ironsand Desert
    Rock (X 1’830, Y -4’110) Simple ring NOTE needs 5+ ranks in Repair

    Cactus (X -7’550, Y -4’110) Simple item NOTE needs 3+ ranks in Repair

    Rock (X 13’815, Y -0’750) Relic + objects + gold

    Murmurwoods
    Tree (X 3’170, Y 6’100) The Gem Converter Tree – see link and click on "Miscellaneous Infor" and look for "Murmurwoods Tree"

    Rock (X -14’050, Y 6’000) Lloyd’s Beacon Scroll

    Ravage Roaming
    Rock (X 2’310, Y 3’510) Some object + gold

    Chest (Need to search heaps of chests inside Barbarian Fortress) Artifact + gold

    Ravenshore
    Buoy (X -4’965, Y 15’100) 5 skill points NOTE One-off, needs 20+ Luck

    Tree (X 4’965, Y 14.065) Artifact or Relic

    Tree (X 1’965, Y 4,990) Simple reagent NOTE needs 3+ ranks in Repair

    Tree (Ravenshore City) DANGER! Empties a bottle on each click

    Regna
    Tree (Village map X -1’290, Y 0’070) Scroll

    Tree (Village map X 4’715, Y -1’180) DANGER! Empties a bottle on each click

    Shadowspire
    Rune Post (X -2’990, Y -3’800) Simple ring NOTE needs 5+ ranks in Repair

    Rune Post (X -12’060, Y 7’850) White potion NOTE needs 7+ ranks in Repair

    Rune Post (City map X 5’350, Y -12’320) Reagent NOTE needs 3+ ranks in Repair

    Wall (City map, Back wall of Potion Shop X 8’760, Y -11’195) Lloyd’s Beacon Scroll



    Related link: https://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/recovered/flamestryke/mm8/flamestrykes_mm8.html

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Looks like I found at least most of the important ones...
09/04/2022, 21:11:29

    Ramillies writes:

    i. e. the ones that give an artifact. The only one of these that I haven't found is the rock in the Ironsand Desert.

    Interestingly enough, I also found the two Alvar Pine trees, but no matter how much I click them and how many ranks in Repair I have, they don't do anything at all :o.





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That may be a slight incompatibility with modern computers.
09/06/2022, 07:21:27

    Peter2 writes:

    I know two of the Easter Eggs in MM6 that don't work with modern computers. In the chapels of the two Silver Helm fortresses, one of the pews in the Outpost (in Mist) used to give a top-level spellbook (I can't rememver exactly what it was), and one of the pews in the Stronghold (in Silver Cove) gave a top-level spear with a medium enchantment. But I haven't seen a game in years that has provided those.

    Another flaw with playing MM6 on the modern computers is that if you click on one of the peasants, it won't always tell you what his/her NPC role is.





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Yep
08/28/2022, 16:05:00

    Peter2 writes:

    ..."felt in a good shape to do similarly with the wasps. I looted the tents nearby (Peter, when you were talking about those Jump scrolls, did you have these in mind?) Those are the ones and entered the hive" ...

    A little further on, I cannot remember how I dealt with those boulders and the boulder traps, but I do remember that I didn't have all this much trouble with them. Almost certainly therefore, I must have tackled them with a more advanced party than the one you had when you tried.





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I thought so
08/28/2022, 21:25:48

    Ramillies writes:

    It's interesting that you haven't had the trouble with the rock-blast trap . I'm totally baffled. I think that the trap would rip me apart even now, and the party has come a long way.

    I devised a second solution: five potions of Earth Resistance (however I haven't used it — I'll probably try the vampire trick some day; using the potions would probably cost more than what it's worth). I had to resort to something similar for my trip into the Plane of Fire (I'm almost at level 50 now and still the incessant fireball barrage could wipe out the party in no time) and having each party member gulp down a fire resistance potion with strength 46 works very nicely.





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A vampire isn't the best character around, but . . .
08/31/2022, 12:52:06

    Peter2 writes:

    . . . he/she/it is not entirely useless. A fully developed vampire, as well as having the Mistform "safety net", does a fair amount of damage when armed with twin daggers, especially when one of them is Foulfang (+10 Long dagger, 2d3+10 damage plus 10 poison damage, Vampiric). There is another dagger around (Blade of Mercy) but according to Flame, it's only usable by necromancers and drops its wielder's Accuracy by 40 points, so it's more ornament than use.




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I found the Blade of Mercy and I use it...
09/03/2022, 11:50:52

    Ramillies writes:

    I don't remember from the top of my head what I've given him to offset the penalty. However, once your stats go over 50, it doesn't matter much what their value really is, because you get discrete increments in performance only each 25 points. So if you have Accuracy of 90 or more, -40 Accuracy just means -1 to your Attack Bonus -- hardly worth mentioning.

    (However, my necromancer in particular has some peculiar equipment. It's almost like one half gives bonuses to offset the penalties of the other half )





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I wouldn't be without a vampire
09/18/2022, 09:28:39

    Liliths Slave writes:

    As well as having the very useful levitation spell to avoid floor traps and protect the party if they fall into lava, taking mistform means they can't be damaged by physical attacks and as they can master spirit magic, if the rest of the party is down, they can raise the cleric from the dead and between them raise the rest of the party. It's particularly useful when going up the lift in the plane of earth. She can get you back down the lift safely to heal ready to go back up and finish off.




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Dragons and maps
08/29/2022, 12:19:09

    The Elf writes:

    You can go two separate ways with dragons:
    1. Annihilate them,
    2. Befriend them.
    If you befriend them, it is possible to add one to your party (if you have room.) Since even Ithilgore (the weakest) is pretty powerful compared to the rest of your party, I always hired one as part of the party. You can hire much stronger dragons later. (I'm not sure, but I think that dragons can carry the party with them when they fly.)

    I found the maps I'd drawn for MM8. The map for the Dagger Wound Islands has a cautionary note for the abandoned temple.
    N. B.: Do NOT enter in turn-based mode! Talking to the first person you meet in this dungeon in T.B. mode can cause MAJOR crash!
    (I don't know whether it still applies.)





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Dragons befriended already
08/29/2022, 14:35:46

    Ramillies writes:

    Thanks for the warning, but I believe this crash has long been fixed in the Grayface patches. Anyhow, I didn't crash there, and I picked up the knight, so I wouldn't get the crash even if it were still there.




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MM8
08/29/2022, 16:32:46

    The Elf writes:

    Glad to hear it, Ramillies! MM8 was one of my faves, even though a lot of Taverners weren't so keen on it. I played it through as one of every race and character possible. (Actually, I did that with all the MM's except 9, but including 10.) And yes, I played MM1 through 5, also. MM8 just "spoke to me," I guess. But I didn't care for 9, at all.




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MM9
09/04/2022, 08:22:56

    Eric B writes:

    That seems to be the consensus of most Might & Magic fans -- including me! I played 9 through once, and it was tedious, at best. I'd say 6 and 7 were my favorites (Fanfiction on MM7 is indefinitely on hold, but what I do have has several nods to MM6.)

    One thing I like about MM7 is once you get to Nighon, you can literally conduct business any time, day or night, since the hours there are reversed. Though, I understand that in MM8, some taverns are actually open 24 hours! (In 6 and 7, the taverns close from 2-5AM, or 2-5PM, depending on which area you're in.)

    I may need to revisit MM8 sometime in the not so distant future...





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I strongly suspect that entering the Abandoned Temple in turn-based mode remains a bad idea.
08/29/2022, 17:12:41

    Peter2 writes:

    So far as I am aware, MM8 is the only Might and Magic RPG for which a patch was never issued. I assume they thought that the bugs that made it through to the alpha game were sufficiently minor that it wasn't worth curing them.

    I do wish, though, that the designers had thought it worthwhile to do something a little more constructive with the New Worlds Dungeon than to fill it with a series of empty rooms. They could at least have written "Kilroy was here" on one of the walls!





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Ah – apologies! I completely overlooked Grayface's patches.
08/29/2022, 17:14:59

    Peter2 writes:





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Glad to hear it!
08/31/2022, 00:34:10

    Ossie writes:

    Peter2 has already provided far more detail re the Tomb & NWC Dungeon that I could have, and some of those Easter-Eggs-In-The-Wild are news to me even after this many playthroughs, so I don't have much to add there.

    You're starting to find one of the differences between MM8 and MM6/7 - most maps have both low-level and some quite powerful dungeons, rather than being a "hard" map or an "easier" map. You probably haven't seen this yet with Dagger Wound Islands as you wouldn't have had access to Fly when you first left, and Ravenshore is probably the only truly "easy" map. So Alvar is probably the first map where you're discovering this - hence your trouble with the Dark Dwarf Compound.

    FWIW, I always considered the DDC a mid-high level dungeon, for exactly the reasons you're finding, and I generally wouldn't tackle it myself until a bit later. Rock Blast seems to be the hardest hitting party-killer, pound-for-pound, and I never found any way to game that corridor, so I've always just waited until the party is strong enough to survive a hit or two. The Vampire is a valid strategy, but as I said on the other post, I don't like sharing XP with characters I'm not intending to keep, and the Vamp needs to be promoted to use Mistform, so that's a fair commitment for a character you're not using. And once you've progressed enough to hire a fully promoted Vamp, you'll likely be able to survive the corridor anyway.

    In short, Master Water Magic is pretty easy to obtain, so MM8 really lends itself to bouncing around the maps to find & tackle whatever is appropriate for your current level, rather than suffering through "one region at a time".





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Part 2: Ironsand Desert and Minotaurs
09/04/2022, 19:42:09

    Ramillies writes:

    Last time, we left off after clearing Alvar. In accord with my "one at a time" policy, I was now looking for another region to clear. Thinking about it a bit, I finally decided to follow the main quest line closely. So if Bastian Loudrin is sending us to Ironsand Desert, then Ironsand Desert it is.

    As it turned out, this desert is quite a "hospitable" place — we've only just arrived and we get a fireball in our face as a welcome present. So we had to start clearing the gogs right away. Sadly, I haven't remembered the gog lesson from MM7; I chased after them and killed them in melee. After killing three gogs in this manner, the party was so badly hurt that they needed to run away and look for the nearest inn — and I was wondering why are those gogs so powerful. However, it quickly occurred to me where the problem was, and after sleeping through the whole day in the tavern, the heroes got rid of the rest of the gogs with bows and arrows.

    The next logical step was to find the witness that would tell Bastian that the lake of fire is not a rumor (I only wonder why he couldn't be bothered to see for himself, or send some of his merchants). The village of Rust isn't very large, so we found him easily, and a couple of minutes after that, we've been entering the Troll Tomb.

    Now I must confess that just before entering the tomb, I was pondering over the role of 3-D in MM games — how MM6 had many buildings with balconies and terraces that would be reachable by a little corridor in a back wall, and how it had some places where you needed to fly, and how the dungeons had complicated multiple-floor layouts, and how it doesn't seem to be the case with the later MM's... I was contemplating those things, clearing the little rooms of gogs and not paying much attention to the game. The map clearly showed a 4Χ4 grid of rooms connected with corridors, each to each, so why pay attention? I found the correct tomb, placed the ashes there, went back to the room where the corridor leading to the exit should be... and there was a wall! Ugh!

    Grayface's patch has recently added the setting to alter the view distance. And I must say that flying high over the landscape and seeing just the skybox with a scrap of the actual landscape somewhere at the bottom of the screen was one of the most annoying things in MM for me. Especially in places like Frozen Highlands, I would just like to have a quiet, nice flight, enjoy the beautiful music and look over the land . Because of that, I set the view distance quite high; but that can, for some reason, lead to near objects failing to render sometimes. So I thought: The door is surely there, I just can't see it because it's a glitch! Saving and reloading didn't do anything. So I rummaged through my inventory and found a Town Portal scroll. "Heck, let's just get out of here by any means possible!" — I used it and — "Spell failed." Ugh! Finally, I went through "all" of the rooms, and after making a "circuit" and returning to the "same room", the doors were in different places! "Is this a glitch or some twisted puzzle where the doors disappear after I use them??" I was stumped.

    Fortunately, Flame's site saved me once more, just by a remark along the lines of "there are multiple levels, so the map is misleading". So I fell for this simple trick — I was contemplating about how the dungeons aren't as much 3-D as they used to be and I totally missed the fact that I'm going down more than I'm going up! After reading that, it wasn't hard to go up everywhere and find the exit. That was a tough lesson .

    So now I could get back to the Snapfinger family, and Overdune Snapfinger agreed to go with me. But — I had to remove one of my party members in order to accommodate him. So far, my party composition was Tajos (dark elf, the protagonist), Devlin Arcanus (necromancer), Frederick Talimere (cleric), Simon Templar (knight) and Arius (minotaur). Because I recruited Arius when I was at level ~ 7, he was constantly lagging behind in experience a bit. And he annoyed me a lot by not being able to wear helmets and boots! So I hadn't to think too much to let him go. After seeing that Overdune Snapfinger was level 15 (Arius was level 15 too, at this point) and that he could wear helmets and boots, I decided I would keep him for good — all in all, the minotaur didn't seem to be as good. I guess he could serve as a kind of a "paladin" in might-heavy groups (because it seems that he can develop the Self-magics to a certain degree), but in my party it didn't make a lot of sense.

    Now I could go back to Alvar and report to Bastian, which I did, and that started the alliance quest. However, I made no attempt to advance this quest further, because "one region at a time"! Instead of that, I went back into the desert and continued wiping it clean. That constituted a visit of the Cyclops' Larder (with another trapped corridor! Moreover, it turned out that my dark elf's Disarm Trap was not up to the Cyclops' standards. So I had to use a peculiar method: run the trapped corridor, rest 8 hours. Open one chest, rest 8 hours. Open another chest, rest 8 hours. Run the damned corridor again and get out of there.), and to "A Cave", which is an unhelpful name. I must say that I was expecting various things, but not dragons. After a lot of pulling and battling in turn-based melee, I managed to clear the cave. Interestingly enough, the dragons had a chest in there, which I looted of course, and it gave me a Devilbone Bow of Carnage (nice!) and another thing, a great blessing and curse in one package — the Noblebone Bow. All the normal bows roll 5d2 + something (max 7) for damage. This rolls 5d4+12! And it has fireball impact! Great weapon, but now we must pay close attention to where we are shooting, so as not to hit the party as well.

    Not long after that, Tajos got Master Bow, and upgraded it to Grandmaster after some more adventures. So while all other party members do ~ 12 damage with one shot, Tajos can get over 80 per shot! The only problem is that the game sends arrows wherever it wants. If you are in a dungeon and even if no monster is in sight, the party won't shoot straight ahead. It will shoot towards the closest monster anyway, so the arrow explodes on the wall and hurts the party badly. Because the monsters' and the characters' HP are on different scales, such a blast means that especially the necromancer and the cleric are heavily wounded. In some cases, such an unlucky shot even managed to kill the two, which meant that I had to run away and visit a temple. But still, when it works, it's wonderful, and I believe it's worth the hassle, although the next time I will blast myself, I will still think "&♯*♮$♭!? Shot myself once again? Oh my gosh." and so on.

    Compared to the dragons, the Chain of Fire was quite easy. The only problem was that I weren't saving often enough. So when I took a step into the trapped room with the chest and the fireball trap killed the whole party in an instant, I had to go through all of it for the second time. And I can't say that this trap is my favorite either — it just shoots fireballs at a horrible rate until you're toast. Fortunately, the chest could be opened with Telekinesis, which I already possessed. And the content was absolutely worth it, though I can't remember what I found inside anymore...

    After clearing the desert, I visited Garrote Gorge. The Dragon Hunters made the worst possible impression on me: their stubborn bloodthirstiness and remarks about how the "dragon scum" needs to be wiped out really put me off. The "icing on the cake" was provided by a random house-dweller that said something like "when we sailed around Regna, I saw a great beautiful dragon. Oh how great it would be if I could kill it". Ugh. I knew that I had to pick sides between Dragons and Hunters and it didn't take any work at all. So I visited the dragon cave and offered them the alliance. I guess they also proved bloodthirsty to a certain extent, since they demanded that I wipe out all the dragon hunters. However, in contrast to the hunters' wanton killing, they at least had a reason to kill. Anyway, after collecting the quests, I at least led some of the nagas right into the dragon hunters. I got rid of all of the nagas, but one of the explosive arrows wounded one of the dragon hunters' pets. So I had it follow me around and killed it when no one was watching. The rest of the hunters had to wait for another day.

    From now on, I finally got rid of the "one region at a time" strategy, because it was clearly unfounded. This led me to poke my nose into Murmurwoods. I've finally rescued Cauri, found the Ancient Troll Home solved its basilisk/wisp infestation problems. There was a minor problem though: I was unlucky and I couldn't get a Protection from Magic from the self-magic shop in Ravenshore. Hence, I was plagued by the perpetual problem "the only guy who can Cure Paralysis (Stone to Flesh) has just been paralyzed (stoned)". I had a little stockpile of useful scrolls though, and that helped me to overcome this nuisance. I also attempted to visit the Druid Circle, but it was immediately clear that the enemies are way too powerful to me: I had to come back later. (And, by the way — why are the unicorns so aggressive here? Isn't a unicorn supposed to be a peaceful animal?)

    And, more importantly, I went to Ravage Roaming as well. It wasn't too hard to follow the road up to Balthazar Lair, so — after fighting off a couple of gorgons and determining that my explosive arrows don't harm them at all — I came to the entrance of the Minotaur city. It seemed that draining the whole lair will be a tough task, but fortunately there was a parchment telling me exactly what to do. So the whole problem was reduced to running around, getting rid of some of the tritons (and yes, I managed to blow myself up with my own explosive arrows more than once. All in all, they proved to be very efficient though. The best method is to stand at one end of a longer corridor and fire them into the room on the other side. No matter what the arrows hit, they will blow up the monsters inside. The only problem occurs when the party decides that firing right into the floor under their feet is an awesome idea.) and pulling the levers correctly. I'm wondering what the levers actually do — I'd like to know if they have some deeper meaning, or if the game just concatenates the letters that you've pressed and that's it. I suppose the former, because when you pull one lever, others seem to go up and down and it looks like it could operate according to some set of rules — can anybody confirm that?

    Anyway, after draining the lair, the Minotaurs joined the Alliance. And after all those adventures, it was high time we visited a training hall and upgraded our skills. This, in conjunction with fortunate store offerings in the Alvar's elemental "mushroom shop", finally gave me the two most important strategic spells of whole game: Fly and Town Portal. I always found it interesting how the MM6-8 gameplay can be divided into two very different stages: pre-Fly-and-Town-Portal and post-Fly-and-Town-Portal. It gives a totally different viewpoint on the same game . By the way, I was quite surprised to see that I couldn't town-portal pretty much anywhere, just into Dagger Wound Island and Balthazar Lair. After I read the spell description more closely, it turned out that I can portal only to places where I've drunk from the town fountain. And I thought that these things can't hold a surprise for a relatively seasoned MM player like me . I also got my Patriarch and War Troll promotions — and Frederick got his Priest of the Sun. I was carrying that book on my back for the whole game, and I could have handed it in for the promotion in the first 10 minutes of the game proper! Ugh.


    I thought I would get further than this, but even the haphazard recollection of just some highlights of everything that happened took too much writing. So the rest of Alliance, Regna and venturing into the Planes (I've cleared 3 out of 4 now) will have to wait until I get into a writing mood once again .





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Fun and games!
09/06/2022, 07:52:41

    Peter2 writes:

    I used a different technique the first time I played the game. I can't remember in detail – too long ago – but I do remember that after completing Dagger Wound and getting to the mainland, I found the Alliance Quest and pretty well followed that. That did involve a LOT of walking (I think I visited all the different areas fairly quickly) and doing a fair number of quests concurrently as well as in a strange order. I remember doing the Dire Wolf quest very early and the Smugglers' Cove and Dark Dwarf Compound quests very late. But I don't remember having too much trouble with anything except, like you, the gogs in Ironsand Desert.




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Good to see you've abandoned "one region at a time"
09/07/2022, 20:16:21

    Ossie writes:

    If the 4th Plane you still have to clear is the Earth Plane, you'll need it.........




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The trapped floor in the Dark Dwarf place
09/18/2022, 09:15:31

    Liliths Slave writes:

    is much easier if you have a vampire that can cast levitation. Welcome to MM8 - it's my second favourite after 6.




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