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Was bored one evening and decided to fire up a KKKK. The amount of fun is through the roof!
06/24/2015, 14:56:25

    Indighost writes:

    After playing about 2 years worth of the game "Path of Exile", I haven't played MM games in a long time, Amazed at how much fun I'm having with KKKK and can't wait to try SSSS and both SSSS/KKKK in MM7 and MM8! The story, the jokes, the colorfulness of everything, finding cool little exploits, learning new tactics and strategies for managing crowds of mobs, carefully allocating skills, deciding which quests to do when, finding awesome treasures, exploring everything! It's so much fun.

    Some questions I'm still pondering:

    1. Skills
    I'm doing
    K1: Sword
    K2: Spear
    K3: Axe
    K4: Dagger

    ...but I've heard several comments about dual-wielding different weapons a better choice than focusing on one weapon. What are your thoughts?


    2. Tactics/Exploits:

    -Strike at the knees whenever you can see an enemy through a small hole or via clipping and he can't hit back.

    -Dragon AI can bug out if they are up against an indoor wall in TBM and they just go in circles.

    -Enemies which fire projectiles (attack and spell projectiles seem to have the same properties) will waste their projectiles if there is a corner or other small non-sprite obstacle in front of them and you will take no damage (aka the Q trick).

    -Reloading randomizes NPC professions. (I'm using wind master and gate master).

    -While trying to manage a huge crowd with no aoe capabilities, hiding in a "spiral corner" has been extremely useful as you generally only get a few at a time due to mobs' randomized movements.

    -I heard about multilooting and am looking to find the earliest place it can be done to try it out, seems like that's the medusa dungeon with the one gold dragon. (am level 20 at the moment.)

    Any other fun things to try out?





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Combat and dual-wielding weapons in MM6
06/25/2015, 06:36:56

    Peter2 writes:

    I cannot do better than refer you to Bones' combat guide at the link below. There were some flaws in the original v1.0 game which meant that it was more effective to wield a single weapon than dual weapons, but since then there have been two official patches and a number of unofficial ones. I believe that some of them have gone some way towards compensating for this, but I'm afraid I have no idea which patch has done what.

    The most damaging single weapon in the game is probably the relic sword Hades, provided that the opposition you are attacking is not immune to poison. If it is immune to poison, you do most damage with the relic spear Poseidon, and the best combination of weapons is Poseidon in your right hand and Hades in your left.

    You are absolutely right in thinking that the first high-tariff monster that you can usefully multi-loot is the gold dragon in the Temple of the Snake in Blackshire, but with an SSSS party having Fly and Meteor Shower, it is both easy and safe to kill supreme titans, as long as you take a modicum of care to stay far enough back so that you can dodge their ranged attacks.



    Related link: http://www.angelfire.com/nt/bones/combat.html

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Thanks, this is fascinating!
06/25/2015, 10:30:08

    Indighost writes:

    Fascinating! And the link is fascinating too!

    Now I'm tempted to re-start with a Sword+Spear setup for all characters. Is that still optimal for MM7 and MM8?

    Also, is it possible to get more than one copy of a unique item (such as Hades) without hacking/trainers? My personal rule set is exploits-OK, hacking/trainers-not OK.

    Also, how does dual wielding relate to attack speed? (Or is that in the Bones document I'm reading?)





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Artifacts and Relics
06/25/2015, 20:14:30

    Peter2 writes:

    You can divide these into two groups, the ones found by random chance, and the 5 placed Artifacts.

    You can find at most 13 random Artifacts and Relics before the game stops providing them. Any one item can be found once and only once, so you can't get 4 Poseidons and 4 Hadeses without using an editor. The catch is that if you find and take any of the 5 placed Artifacts before you've taken 13 random ones, it counts against your allocation, so in practice, you can end up with any number of Artifacts and Relics from 13 up to 18.

    The 5 paced Artifacts (the sword Excalibur, the dagger Mordred, the amulet Morgan, and the two rings Guinevere and Igraine) are found in specific places, and are provided independently of the random Artifacts and Relics, so these are the only items that you can legitimately have two of.

    For ordinary weapons, I'm fairly sure that the sword/spear combination is optimum for melée combat in turn-based mode, but the Artifacts and Relics are different, so those need to be taken on their own merits. However, in this game, and I'm pretty sure in MM7 as well, the best weapon in real-time melée combat is unquestionably the blaster. It doesn't do much damage in any one shot, but it fires so quickly that the damage done over a given time-period outweighs any other weapon. But they're useless in turn-based mode.

    Having said that, I still consider that the most effective combat technique in MM6 is the spell Shrapmetal in contact range, cast by a fully developed Dark Magic master equipped with Guinevere and a Ring of Dark Magic. Each of those multiplies the effectiveness of the spell by 1.5 (with the obtained damage figure rounded down if it's not a whole number).

    I can't answer the last question, I just don't know.





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Ty
06/26/2015, 00:01:21

    Indighost writes:

    Thanks for the thoights. For this game my goal is to maximize melee physical damage per time unit, so I will keep experimenting.




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Mm6 artifacts and relics
02/24/2024, 00:29:54

    Doc writes:

    Long time might and magic addict. Playing mm6 now for millionth time. Got all five fixed artifacts first. Cave of the Dragon Riders in area B1 is loaded with Great Wyrms. After you kill one save the game and keep rebooting until you get an artifact or relic. I’ve gotten 14 so far and that is after I got the five fixed ones. I don’t think there is a limit on how many you can get. Just save and reboot until you get one.




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More questions
06/25/2015, 10:45:28

    Indighost writes:

    Also, I should clarify. Coming from the game Path of Exile, when I want to optimize my melee character, I think in terms of Physical Damage divided by Time. In MM6 is it still better to dual-wield in terms of Damage per Time? Bones' document seems to say it's better to use a single weapon due to the much higher attack speed.

    Also, Bones' document describes a bug which makes Expert/Master Armor Training useless. Is that fixed now? (I am using the GOG.com version of MM6 which I believe has the grayface patch).



    Related link: http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile

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One answer
06/25/2015, 20:24:22

    Peter2 writes:

    I don't know if any patch fixes the armour recovery bug.

    However, in the v1.0 game, you can get the benefits for leather and chain by taking the appropriate skill level in chain and plate respectively. Once my characters have reached master level in these two skills, I consider it legitimate to use an editor to confer mastery in chain on the leather master, and mastery in plate on the chain master. That way, I get the recovery benefits. I don't, of course, equip the leather user with chain or the chain user with plate.

    Regarding Time and Damage, you'll have to consult the combat guide; I cannot comment.





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I don't knwo how to edit my posts so I'm just goign to keep replying.
06/25/2015, 11:24:41

    indighost writes:

    I installed the latest version of the greyface patch to be sure. According to the greyface webpage, he seems to say that he edited the game to ensure that wielding 2 weapons does NOT decrease attack speed, so now it seems dual wielding is always optimal. Not sure how I feel about that but whatever I guess.

    https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm/mechanics#TOC-Dual-Weapons





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Posts once made cannot be edited except by the Tavern Barkeeps, Bones and Chlala.
06/25/2015, 19:47:30

    Peter2 writes:

    Anything new you want to say has to go in a new post




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And while I'm spamming...
06/25/2015, 11:36:04

    Indighost writes:

    Let's say I have a knight who dual-wields a sword and a spear. Should I allocate skill points equally to each weapon?




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No.
06/25/2015, 19:45:27

    Peter2 writes:

    Once you've got both up to master level, put the skill points into spear only. Expert sword gives you quicker attack, and master sword allows the weapon to be used left-handed. In contrast, expert spear increases your armour class, and master spear increases damage, so points in spear give the bigger benefit.




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Hmmm
06/26/2015, 00:10:08

    Indighost writes:

    But if that's the case, then wouldn't it be more optimal to maximize Axe skill dual-wielded with sword? Axe skill provides accuracy, speed and damage all in one.




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True, but the game doesn't provide any outstanding 1-handed axes.
06/26/2015, 06:24:41

    Peter2 writes:

    There is a relic axe, Cronos, which does 4d2 + 14 damage. (It also adds 100 hit points and takes 50 off your luck, neither of which would have much effect on a high-level character.) Apart from that, the best axe would be a Supreme Axe (4d2 + 11 damage, +11 to hit), which is considerably inferior to either Poseidon or the Elite Halberd (3d6 + 10, +10 to hit).

    You can find weapons with the enchantment "of the Dragon", (+(10 to 20) points of fire damage and +25 might), to increase the axe's potency, but you can do exactly the same to the halberd so that makes no difference.





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Interesting
06/26/2015, 10:59:49

    Indighost writes:

    Interesting. So perhaps if a player (with very high might and speed) were to max out all skills at 60 or whatever is the maximuym, an axe-wielder might come out on top in terms of DPS (with the +60 damage, +60 accuracy, and the -60 recovery time), but anything less and spear or spear+sword would win out due to higher base damage. Do I understand correctly?




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I couldn't really say.
06/26/2015, 11:35:55

    Peter2 writes:

    I've never gone into it in that amount of detail. One thing I can say is that if a character can be developed to that level, it won't matter what he (or she) is armed with. In purely physical combat, he's going to make mincemeat of anything in the game that gets in his way.

    The only things that are going to have any chance of stopping him are the hostiles that can deliver instant death or disablement. There are actually a fair number of these — for example the cockatrices with their paralyze and stone, the medusas with stone, Q and the Supreme Titan with death, and the Terminator with eradication, and there may be a few more. A player character's resistance to magical attack in this game are not all that strong, and if a successful attack from any of those gets through, a character is toast, no matter how good he is.





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Not exactly..
07/08/2015, 19:52:22

    Macros writes:

    When dual-wielding, only the recovery time of the secondary weapon matters (with Grayface patch). In addition, only the secondary weapon's skill matters for attack and recovery time.

    Therefore, spear skill only increases damage and armor class, not attack. Axe skill only increases damage, not attack and recovery time. Sword skill (for the sword in off-hand) increases attack and decreases recovery time.

    So, when dual-wielding, invest in both skills equally to get the best DPS.


    Sidenote 1: it's different in MM7 and 8, where spear skill only effects armor class while sword skill effects damage, recovery time, and attack so clearly it's wrong to invest in spear skill in those games.


    Sidenote 2: Spear is better for dual-wielding because the advantage of Axe skill (recovery time) is pointless since you need to increase Sword skill for it instead.
    If you are not dual-wielding, then Axe eventually beats Spear at high enough skill. It has to overcome the weapon itself dealing less damage, being slower, and losing the +1d* bonus you get from using spears two-handed.





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