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How to change party order?
05/11/2010, 02:03:05

    dr. beat writes:

    OK, completely stupid question, but how do you change the order of your party characters in MM8? I don't see it in the manual and can't find anything on Google except to highlight one character and control-click another, but this doesn't seem to work?!? Am I missing something? :-)




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I'd suggest booting the NPC's and then rehiring them from the tavern in the desired order. And, you cannot move your starting character from the leftmost slot i think...
05/11/2010, 02:56:11

    Starsabre writes:





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that might work, but...
05/11/2010, 03:38:23

    dr. beat writes:

    what if you start with a non-fighter class, like a Necromancer or something? They'd get pounded if you really couldn't move them from the leftmost slot, wouldn't they? (I actually started with a Dark Elf, but still it seems there *should* be a way to re-order the party like in past games...?)




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1st character slot
05/11/2010, 04:24:32

    Naal writes:

    You can't move the character in the 1st slot. If you chose a magic class for this slot I would recommend just giving them as much endurance, HP, resistances, and AC that you can. I've played a party of Necro, Dark Elf, Cleric, Necro, and Necro and it didn't seem like the 1st character took a whole lot more damage than the rest of the party.




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Characters do not take damage based on their location in the party
05/11/2010, 06:06:37

    StarSabre writes:

    There are speculative thoughts about how characters take damage, but what is certain is:

    Each monster has a "preference". This preference might be a class or a sex or a race (in MM7). So, for example, try fighting vampires in Shadowspire with a mixed party, which has a single cleric/priest in it. You will see EVERY ranged and ALMOST every melee attack of the vampires hit the cleric until he is out. Whichever side you turn to the enemy, cleric will stil be prime target to take hits. Thats the preference in class.

    Same way trolls in MM7 target women and priests, so you'd better make your priest male so he doesnt get squashed that often by them.

    You can see the preferences in numerous monster tables out there on the websites, and when making parties in MM7 i even considered those so in most situation my party is evenly "liked" by the monsters, so i dont get situation like that in Shadowspire when my cleric goes out first whatever i do (you dont have that freedom of making up a party in MM8 unfortunately)

    Thats for certain. Now for the speculations, i have noticed that it sometimes matters where from does the projectile arrive. It seems that when i get shot from the left, my leftmost character is hit more often and vice versa. I dont suppose this is true, but probably.

    The only thing certain is class sex and race preference of some monsters.

    Also, you might consider that arrows and ranged attacks that are projectiles like arrows fly from the position of your character. So for example if you peep from a corner by slowly strafing to the right and try to shoot the monster, the rightmost character will be the first one who will be able to shoot the monster, meaning his projectile will not be stuck in the wall. So it might be a good idea to have ranged characters at the side.

    Although, this might harm you in a narrow tunnels when backpedaling, arrows fired from sides can get stuck in the corners or walls while arrows fired by the central members of your party will hit. So its up to you, i chose not to bother with that

    In MM6 and MM7 you cannot dismiss any characters so you can swap them with ctrl clicks indeed.

    PS: It even helps beating a minotaur king in MM6 in a temple in Booty Bay where he is prone to get stuck behind a chest, and you can shoot him with leftmost character if you peep from behind the corner. If you go any further he will unstuck, so you have to put your best archer into the leftmost slot to make the process faster.





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thanks, great advice!
05/11/2010, 13:40:24

    dr. beat writes:

    Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I loved playing MM6&7 (well 3-5 too "back in the day"). I just assumed that party order matters in 8 as it did in those as I often shifted my chars around strategically too in those games.

    Kind of wondering if I should've started with a Knight or Troll instead of a Dark Elf for my first play through on 8 as I think I'd prefer his nifty bow work in the middle of the party, but oh well, we'll see!





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Advice
05/11/2010, 22:30:49

    Naal writes:

    Picking a Troll for the 1st party slot isn't a bad idea as you can't recruit one right away unlike most of the other classes. As for the Dark Elf you can recruit the LV 50 Dark Elf fairly early in the game if you know what your doing. The Knight doens't make a big difference as you can recruit one in the temple on Dagger Isle.




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The greatest thing about Might and Magic...
05/12/2010, 02:50:05

    Starsabre writes:

    Is that you can play the game ANY way you want. Its not about "pick this talent build and this class or you will fail" like in modern MMO's. Its not like "farm 10 days for items only then you're eligible to join this quest". Its not like "always make choices that let you kill creeps faster".

    You can win the game with any party. Its a matter of preference.

    I first played (and enjoyed alot) MM6 with default party (paladin, archer, sorcerer, cleric). I played it when i was a kid so i didnt understand that much of tactics, advanced tricks etc. Though i discovered later in the game that my paladin is worthless because monsters mostly do instant - kills with their attacks so i cannot go close combat, and in ranged combat he deals pitiful damage compared to those of the sorcerer with starfalls. I also noticed that archer was just a low-on-mana sorcerer and in close combat he was also useless due to low hp and not having dark magic (shrapnel).

    Therefore i walked the path of magic next time and it astunned me, how hard it was at beginning and how terrific at the end (slay the dragon in one click when you cast four shrapnel in his face). I completed all three with magic-oriented groups (1x cleric, others sorcerers).

    But now i play might-oriented party because imbalance of the magic bored me kinda. This is also very fun (in MM7 and 8, in MM6 no armsmaster skill so damage is incomparable to those of magic). You dont need to run to temple like chickens and in the end of the game you got a serious power by just holding the attack button.

    Then i tried solo run as a troll. No companions, no saveloads. That was also a lot of fun! Alone in the dark, without wizard eye... monsters growling... You almost freak out when you see your gem turn red and hear a blow to your head! want to run away as fast as you can.

    You can play it any way you want! In MM8, i can suggest:

    - Casual (pick balanced party with might and magic classes, like dragon, knight necromancer cleric dark elf)
    - Magic (necro x 4, cleric, or necto x 5 for hardcores)
    - Might (cleric + four melees knight/minotaur/troll/dark elf/vampire) (vampire is the weakest, dark elf is also not that good melee but he is taken for good misc skills)
    - Ranged party (5x dark elfs or 4xdark elfs + 1 cleric)
    - Solo run (only one main character, limited use of npc's, like they only brew potions for you, or hold your items like a safe deposit box, no save/load if you died a fair death like were surrounded or stoned etc)
    - Peace run (no killing anybody except the one monster who carries submarine key)
    - Dead party=game over, no loading if you died a fair death (Hardcore as it's called, try that and after you mourn your first party you well developed in some days, you will start to feel the game very seriously, unlike ever before. You will keep alot of safety items in every person's inverntory, you will always plan ahead, etc etc, so much of emotion!)

    And whatever fits In this game, unlike the others, you set the rules and you play them. Unlike others who provide even that, this game does not get too hard or too easy or too boring with most of the setups (like in Wiz8, any bad party will not succeed as soon as they reach higher levels and tough monsters start to spawn, or like in Transport Tycoon, where you actually have no goal and after some time into the game the income is too big you cannot spend it without constant pausing)

    You have unlimited scenarios to try for yourself. For example with magic party when you acquire starfall/meteorite shower its game over for the landscape zones. You just AOE them to pieces. Therefore, you just cannot experience how would that be if you had a might party and had to reach them and slash them. Or when you were struggling somewhere with your mages running constantly low on mana, having to go back to heal, you will then feel pretty nice when your might party bashes through in a single blow, killing everybody and not even thinking about resting.

    Have fun





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There are lots of great things about M&M
05/12/2010, 16:49:09

    Liliths slave writes:

    and its versatility is definitely one of them.




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Yeah but why i put it above all else is that i belive this is the key aspect of M&M replayability... Something modern games lack alot...
05/13/2010, 02:11:37

    Starsabre writes:

    But if you take into account the business model, the M&M series are a complete fail. They sold a game box for some little sum of bucks and many have pirated it instead of ever paying (i had first had pirated versions, because you couldnt get license in Russia, only after one company bought the rights did Russia see a legal copy of it being sold... like what, 3 years after release?....)

    Anyway, they sold it for little and gained nothing afterwards. Even though fans are playing it 10 years for now, 3DO or NWC gained absolutely nothing from that replayability. Players could as well abandon it after first walkthrough, it wouldnt matter. The sum paid is just the same.

    Therefore, its a pity, but in terms of business, its better to make crappy but seemingly attractive one-shot games that you play and go buy another game. Or make a games with subscription. There is no point to make a long-lasting replayable game without sucking money from the players for every month they play it. It just means they'll purchase less games (since they replay it). Its not economically effective.

    And this... just sucks to know that.





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You are right.
05/13/2010, 06:05:49

    Peter2 writes:

    The player-generated character goes in the first slot and only in the first slot.

    And you are also right in thinking that the only way to change the order of characters in this game is to dismiss your game-generated player characters in the next four slots is to dismiss them to the Adventurers' Guild and re-engage them in the order you want them to occupy.

    The ability to change the order of your characters by highlighting one and Ctrl-clicking on another applies only to MM6. You can't do it in MM7. And the only game in which I know for certain character order matters is MM9. There, you can set the "formation" of your party - I think the keyboard command is either F or Ctrl-F, but I'm not certain of that. It's not well indexed in the manual.





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Well it does matter in MM6,7,8 to some extent, at least for the purpose of projectile clipping, possibly more
05/14/2010, 02:45:11

    Starsabre writes:

    Had an opportunity to test that today. Entered the ogre keep in Alvar. In turn based mode. Right from start i can hit the mercenaries (human swordsmans) with two of my rightmost characters (4 people in party) but two leftmost characters would hit the wall instead.

    Provided the possibility to swap the members around, i would be able to shoot them with all four party members.

    This is 100% confirmed and yes here order does matter. It can happen in any confined space.

    Also, when i started the game (necromancers only) i first leveled mine to 5 then took the necromancer from the tavern. When they travelled along, i dont know why, but my hired necromancer was taking almost all the ranged hits (especially lizardmen friendly fire...) and most melee hits.

    This could be (speculation but it looks like this) because the attack hits the portrait 3-5 but no person there, so it looks for the closest portrait (2) and hits him. Maybe it was just monster preference i dont know (i was fighting pirates, and monsters from abandoned temple)





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Yes, I know this applies when your party shoots, but ...
05/14/2010, 20:06:29

    Peter2 writes:

    ... of my own experience, I'm not sure it applies when your party takes damage.




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