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(Off-Topic) Where is Finland's Crazy Bear When You Need Him?
02/26/2021, 14:48:54

    The Elf writes:

    (Reference to FCB in title, is that if he were still available, he would immediately solve my problem/curiosity.)
    Several days ago, I ran across a sudoku puzzle magazine I'd bought at some northern airport and completely forgotten about. (Sudoku and those make-a-picture by shading certain squares in a numbered grid are great for an international traveler to solve on lo-o-ong flights, since their logic transcends language--that is, if you already know the mechanics of solving them. Also, if the logimaze, paint-by-number, nanogram or whatever the local term for the picture puzzles use Arabic numbers. Having played 4-person mah-jong, I could probably figure out Chinese, but not Japanese or whatever.) At any rate, I got the magazine, and am trying to figure out where. The only places we've flown to in the last ten years are: are Russia via Helsinki, France, and Norway via Helsinki. France can be eliminated immediately, of course, since I do remember enough 10th-grade French to recognize it when I see it. Similar Russia is eliminated, since the language is plainly not Cyrilic. So that leaves Finnish and Norwegian. Here's the first sentence of the words on the inside of the magazine's cover:
    Tervetuloa SUDOKU AARTEET -lehden pariin!
    Can anyone tell which language it is?
    Incidentally, the publishing info is no help at all. According to the info, "Sudoku Aarteet -lehteä julkaisee Bromleigh House Ltd. of Devon. (Wasn't sure ASCII would work here, but it did!)




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Possible answer
02/26/2021, 16:57:26

    Eric B writes:

    I plugged the phrase into Google, and found a Website with similar words that could be translated. By using Google's translator, it showed that it was from Finnish to English. Thus, I'd say that you probably acquired the magazine in Helsinki.

    As for the publisher, Bromleigh House Ltd. of Devon appears to be located in Newton Abbot, Devon. Which is in the United Kingdom.

    Hope this helps!





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Thank you, Eric
02/26/2021, 17:40:28

    The Elf writes:

    I suspected it might be, because when we were in Oslo, I could make out a word or two that were sort of like German, but Finnish had me baffled. (I've read that it and Basque are two languages that have no counterparts.) Also I noticed that Norwegian has a lot of O's with umlauts, while the former "mystery" language only seemed to have them on A's and not O's.




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Finnish is one of the three Finno-Ugric languages
02/27/2021, 07:23:21

    Peter2 writes:

    Its "relatives" are Estonian and – believe it or not – Hungarian!

    I think I read somewhere that JRR Tolkein in his Middle-Earth tales used Finnish as the basis for the high-elven language Quenya (and Welsh as the basis for the grey-elven tongue Sindarin). You can take this as another one, if you like!





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Wow! Thanks--I had no idea.
02/27/2021, 12:26:47

    The Elf writes:

    I wonder if the language was an outgrowth of the former Austria-Hungarian Empire.




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Definitely not. If you're interested, here's a short tale about where it came from...
02/27/2021, 13:57:14

    Ramillies writes:

    (Now I don't know where Estonian and Finnish came from, but I do know a bit about the history of Hungary, as it often ties in with our own (= Czech) history.)

    The Hungarians were actually a people that lived in a very "nomadic" style. They came to the Central Europe somewhere from the East (I think that the Hungarian is considered an "Uralic" language, so maybe they came from Ural?) at the beginning of the 10th century and they started raiding everything they could (and since they were essentially living and fighting on the horseback, they were quite good at it). By the way, one of the first things they did is that they made a quick end to the Great Moravia (that was in ~907). Maybe there were other causes too, but we don't know much about it.

    After that, they repeatedly wandered through today's Austria, eastern parts of Germany, and of course today's Czech Republic and Slovakia, pillaging and taking what they could. On some occasions they were repelled (and forced to take a break with the pillaging) but all in all, they were pestering the Central Europe for nearly 50 years, until they have finally been given a sound thrashing in 955 at the river Lech (essentially the Germans and the Bohemians alike were so much fed up with them that they joined forces and defeated them. There were more battles than this one, but we don't know much about them.).

    When much of their forces had been defeated, the rest of them was allowed to settle peacefully roughly in the places where today's Hungary is (sort of pushing/mixing with the original Slavic population), and they rose in power very quickly, so at the break of the millenium they already had things like a hereditary title of a king, and a seat of an archbishop (while we the Bohemians managed to get those boons much much later). All in all, a new power was in place. For much of the history, they were spanning much farther than today's Hungary (for instance, they held much of today's Slovakia, which was called "the Upper Hungary"), they were reduced in size only after the First World War, and even before and in the Second World War, the Hungary sided with Hitler because there was a widespread belief that with him, they will be able to recover their country to its former glory of "Great Hungary". (Essentially "Make Hungary great again", if you permit.)

    I think that now it's clear: the language is non-Indo-European because it was spoken by people who came from far away and settled only later in the middle of the otherwise Indo-European nations.





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Ramillies, that's fascinating!
02/27/2021, 16:46:31

    The Elf writes:

    It sounds like those early Hungarians were sort of like the Cossacks, who may or may not have come from around Kazakhstan. When we visited Ukraine (back before all the present warfare,) we were told that many, many Cossack tribes were from that area, and were possibly descended from the Mongol hordes, allowing for several generations of interbreeding with locals. Of course, "Cossack" later came to be the term for various czars' professional thugs, who "kept the peace." The original Cossacks were all-male tribes with strict orders of horsemanship practice and deportment. They were celibate; those wishing to marry and have children were required to leave the tribe. (Or at least that's how it was described to us.) They said that the name "Cossack" was derived from "Kazakh" (Sacha Baron Cohen wasn't around to confirm or deny!) They said further that there were some who thought the name came as a corruption of "cassock," since the standard garb was a cassock-like robe. But since that was standard garb for most Russians at that time, it seems highly unlikely.

    P. S.: Papa Elf is very proud of his "Praha" hat.





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You're quite correct about comparing them to Cossacks...
02/27/2021, 20:15:50

    Ramillies writes:

    Europe has known wave upon wave of invaders from the East like this. Just off the top of my head: Huns (led by the famous Attila; however they have been beaten back by a coalition of Romans and Germanic tribes, I believe in 453), Avars (in 7th century), Hungarians (in the 10th century), and of course the Mongols, also called the Tatars (in the 13th century). And those are only the ones that made it deep into the Europe.

    However all of them are quite similar: all were nomadic tribes, mostly used to living their lives on the horseback, invading from the East and plundering and killing, often with great cruelty, as much as they could manage. Usually they were excellent horse-archers, which made it quite hard for the Europeans to deal with them, as they weren't really accustomed to that style of fighting.

    Huns were beaten back, Avars just sort of "vanished", dispersing and mixing with the other Central European peoples. Of Hungarians I have told in the previous post. The Mongols were the greatest threat: in the 1240s when they came, it actually just seemed that nobody in all Europe was actually capable of doing them any real harm (I could at least note that the Bohemian king Václav I. at least made serious effort to hinder them, though in the end it had not been enough). However, they stayed only for a couple of years and then they rode back — if I recall it well, not because they would be defeated, but because the word got to them that Genghis Khan had died and of course everybody was far more eager to contend for the empty throne back home than to wander around the foreign Europe burning and killing.

    Obviously the lands to the east of us, notably Russia, have had much more experience with such nomadic nations, so it makes good sense that the Cossacks resemble a lot the other tribes that were powerful enough to make it into Europe.





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I agree with Elf, this is indeed fascinating.
02/28/2021, 07:09:37

    Peter2 writes:

    I know comparatively little about the history of Central and Eastern Europe. I picked up quite a lot about the Roman Empire up to about 80 AD in the course of learning Latin, but my history lessons at school were concerned much more with Western Europe and to a lesser extent the Americas.

    I had a very good friend in Germany – he taught History and English – and when we stayed with him one Summer, he spent one totally engrossing evening laying out for us the threads of history which showed how a purely pragmatic political decision made by the Emperor Otto sometime round the 1100's (the creation of the Prince-Bishops) led to Hitler and the Third Reich. I wish I could remember the whole of it, but all that remains in my memory now are the barest outlines. He got cancer and died in 1999, and I still miss him. He was a lovely man and a good friend, but his life was dogged by some of the cruellest misfortune.

    Also, during a visit to the Baltic States, I learned that Lithuania had a short-lived Empire covering a large area in the north of central Europe, sometime in the 1400's IIRC. However, I know very lttle, and nothing systematic, about the history of Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, the Balkan States and the Ottoman Empire.





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That's only natural.
02/28/2021, 08:55:10

    Ramillies writes:

    I do know some bits of history of Central Europe, since that's from where I come. Of course I remember the most from my nation's history (i. e. Czech/Bohemian), but with that, there come bits and pieces of history of the surrounding nations, and sometimes not so surrounding. For instance, maybe you will remember about the battle of Crécy in 1346 as one of the early English victories in the Hundred Years War. However in Czech history, it is remembered because a King of Bohemia, Jan Lucemburský (that would translate as John of Luxembourg), sought (and found) heroic death in that battle. (He was a very adventurous person and much into the "knightly stuff" of that period, like tournaments. In the 1340's, first one of his eyes became blind and the other shortly followed. Blind and quite old (he was in his fifties), he knew that he was most likely to die of old age, unable to take care of himself, in a very unknightly way. So in that battle, when it was very clear that the French (with which he sided) have lost, he bade a couple of Bohemian noblemen to tether his horse to theirs and to carry him against the English bowmen. Just like in some sort of old heroic epic.)

    You see, another story! And wasn't going to tell one . However, the Czech history makes for one heck of a story, though we are only a little nation. There is everything you would want, from periods of awesome greatness, when the Bohemian kingdom stretched up to the sea and all would tremble before it, to the periods of horrible misery when it looked like the state and the people will vanish altogether. But, ultimately, the Czech language is still spoken in these lands, and that's also a sizable miracle.

    Anyway, even when I was very interested in history back in the high school, I didn't get that much of the history of England and America, although I had at least some basic facts. And although I'm still young, most of the memory has already faded away. It's only natural that you have it the other way.





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I actually hated history in school!
02/28/2021, 12:29:49

    The Elf writes:

    History was not taught well in US schools back in the 1940's and 50's. It was memorizing boring statistics: who fought what battle in year X, or what year was America colonized by whom? (Actually, America's real history was totally ignored: one would have thought that between Columbus in 1492 and the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock in present-day Massachusetts in 1620, nothing at all happened. Never mind that the Dutch were busy colonizing New Amsterdam (New York,) the Spanish had claimed Florida, and the French were sailing back and forth between their Caribbean colonies and the Mississippi River, with a lively fur trade. (The fact that those Pilgrims were greeted by a Native American [formerly called "Indians"]speaking perfect London-flavored English seemed to have escaped all the writers of history textbooks.) Papa Elf only learned a lot of it recently via a history series on TV. Who knew that some Native Americans were more advanced than the average European peasant?
    In college, I finally had a teacher who got it right: he pointed out that nothing happened in a vacuum: while this historical even was happening, the people over here were more concerned with that event. His exams were along the lines of: if event X had not occurred, what would your life be like today? or: why do you think Event Y occurred at all? He made you think.




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Sadly, you can sometimes meet the same horrible teaching style even today here.
02/28/2021, 16:24:21

    Ramillies writes:

    I was just fortunate to not get much of it. I also had the luck that I somehow got accustomed to listening to a great radio series called "Toulky českou minulostí" (which would translate to "Wandering through the Czech history"). It actually ran for more than 20 years straight, covering our history from the oldest stuff we know, up to the emergence of the first Czechoslovak Republic in 1918. I used to have an MP3 player full of these and I listened to them everywhere.

    So after some time, I actually could "excavate" the real story even if just given the horrible list of battles and dates, and I liked history very much until I got into the college. From then on, sadly the tons of math, physics and other stuff don't leave me much space to learn history, or at least refresh the knowledge, and so it's slowly going away.





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History was never one of my favourite school subjects, either
03/01/2021, 11:36:07

    Peter2 writes:

    The only person more suprised than I was when I did so well in my history exams was my teacher. I think each of us disliked the other.

    Things changed to a certain extent shortly after I left school when I came across two quotes. The first one was Edmund Burke's quote "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" and the second (I can't remember who said it) was "Learn from other people's mistakes. Life's too short to make them all yourself". I still made no systematic effort to learn history, but I made sure I picked up a fair bit along the way!

    Chemistry was the basis of my professions.





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That's interesting. I would guess exactly the opposite ,...
03/01/2021, 14:17:27

    Ramillies writes:

    ... since I got the impression that you were quite fond of history. (For instance, I still remember that story of yours about the brewery workers who saved themselves from the cholera outbreak because they drank only beer .)

    Anyway, it's still interesting that those quotes moved you to get interested in history. I hear them being flung around quite routinely and still most of people tend to hate history. (Maybe because of the traumatic experiences from school?...)





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Yes. A good teacher makes all the difference
03/04/2021, 07:16:10

    Peter2 writes:

    My first chemistry teacher was a guy called Len Stockdale (nicknamed Stoker), a superbly charismatic man in whose lessons the subject came alive. He embedded the connections between the different areas of chemistry into the lessons and made the whole thing seem so simple and obvious that, for me at least, learning the sunject was not only a pleasure but was almost effortless.

    Many years later, after he was long dead, I was asked to tutor a lad who was having problems with his chemistry. I soon found out that the problem was a poor teacher, who had just thrown facts at the class and omitted the connections. All I needed to do was to demonstrate that the connections were there. Once the lad had been shown that, the facts suddenly made sense to him, and I understand he did very well.

    To be fair, my second effort at tutoring was almost completely unsuccessful. The girl was not interested, was not prepared to put in any effort to learn the facts, and I didn't really have the advanced teaching skills that would have enabled her to improve.





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That's a common problem with tutoring...
03/04/2021, 12:36:18

    Ramillies writes:

    Often you get students who just think that they can buy passing the next test. It's pretty much impossible to make them improve.

    By the way, I hated chemistry at school, because the teaching was invariably so poor . Exactly what you say: dump tons of facts on people's heads and then demand them in the tests. Lately I was thinking that since I now have quite some knowledge of quantum mechanics and thermodynamics, it would be a good time to finally get into the high school chemistry . Sadly I have no time for anything like that.





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I found the "Life's too short...." quote attributed to Sam Levenson. It sounds like one of his aphorisms.
03/01/2021, 19:38:37

    Bones writes:





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My favorite Levenson quote:
03/02/2021, 11:41:41

    The Elf writes:

    On this globe, there is a woman giving birth to a child every ten seconds. She must be found and stopped!




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That's a hilarious one!
03/03/2021, 05:57:12

    Ramillies writes:





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I'm pretty sure that's Finnish, although others have probably told you so as well.
02/26/2021, 18:39:09

    Ramillies writes:





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My sister lives there ,thoigh she is in Swedish speaking minority in Finland
02/27/2021, 02:41:28

    Little Krishna writes:

    Tervetuloa is Hello in Finnish.
    That said sometimes about magazine which called Sudoku treasures




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I play Dungeon Lords and there's class Budoka for Eastern type Rogue . Sounds like Sudoku)))
03/03/2021, 14:30:14

    Little Krishna writes:





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I thought I read somewhere that FCB had gone to join Zedd and Flamestryke in the Great Game in the Sky. Please correct me if anybody knows otherwise!
02/27/2021, 07:43:40

    Peter2 writes:





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Was it FCB or. . .
02/27/2021, 12:23:39

    The Elf writes:

    . . . Nokia? He had worked for them, and according to Encyclopedia Googlanica (I made that up,) Nokia is still in business though obviously no longer the cell phone giant it once was.
    You're probably right. Didn't FCB say something about possible heart trouble, back in the day? I remember we were all concerned about him.

    I had a short telephone conversation with him in 1990-something. When I commented on his very, very British accent, he laughed and replied that he was married to a beautiful blonde Finnish girl, and worked for Nokia, but had only left Britain a relatively short time before. Good-bye, Peter Floyd, we miss you.





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Alas, he was active way before I came, so I have no idea about his whereabouts.
02/27/2021, 13:59:00

    Ramillies writes:





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Chlala and I have similar recollections. FCB last posted in November of 2008.
03/01/2021, 19:35:43

    Bones writes:





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Goodnes gracious! I didn't realise it was THAT long ago!!!
03/03/2021, 11:38:50

    Peter2 writes:





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Great people posted around ten years before Harpsichordist , Hodge ,Zedd players from Celestial
03/03/2021, 14:48:40

    Little Krishna writes:

    Quit playing after playing BDJ mods ten years before . Ubisoft forced to come back




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The last mail I have from FCB is
03/03/2021, 19:06:17

    Chlala writes:

    from Feb 17, 2008

    "Hi,
    I have done something wrong and got myself banned..
    All I did was to ask "how does one "flip on exit"
    after using MOKs patch..in MM6.?
    I then asked how to check had MOks patch been
    installed ok...
    I then tried to make same post on MM9...got second
    offence..
    I checked I did not use any bad words...not in the
    post anyway..when I got banned I might of muttered
    some thing not nice about Denmark.."Dannish Blue
    pooh"...


    Best Wishes from Peter and Maippi in Finland"






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Finnish for sure! Norwegian I can easily read since it's very similar to danish.
03/03/2021, 19:00:34

    Chlala writes:





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