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I have an empty 32 gig USB drive. Is that big enough for a Linux install and all my M&M games?
05/16/2016, 21:49:47

    Bones writes:

    I'll have to install some version of Linux on it. Which version do you think will satisfy our classic gamers that best? We don't need to run all our old apps and we don't need a versatile interface.




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Yes. +tips
05/17/2016, 02:56:17

    Sudo writes:

    That's probably enough to store every game NWC ever made.
    Though if you already have the games on the computer you want to play on, you don't have to store the games on the usb drive.

    Oh, and I said 'try Ubuntu or Puppu Linux', but coming from Windows, I would recommend Xubuntu, which is based on Ubuntu, but with Xfce, which is a desktop environment that's lightweigt and easy to use.

    Get it here: xubuntu.org

    Then get the Linux usb installer for Windows, which is easy to use.
    Get it here: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/

    So you just get the Xubuntu ISO, install Universal USB Installer, and just install the iso to your usb drive.

    So, if you choose Puppy instead, to run the OS from only your usb drive (as it allows you to save the changes you make to your install), the procedure is the same.

    The problem in this case with Puppy, is that its default file-manager doesnt recognize exe files, and runs them with Wine once installed. I think this is the case, so use the package manager to get SpaceFM or Thunar or any other file manager you can find.
    Oh, and Puppy will probably be lackingnyour graphics drivers. But they are easy to install.

    So get either installed on a usb drive, and tell me how it goes.





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I'm very much looking forward to this.
05/17/2016, 04:49:27

    Peter2 writes:

    My trusty Win2000 system is on its way out at long last, and although I can still use the Win98 partition, the DOS shell doesn't have enough lower memory free to run WoX any more. I haven't been able to play that in years; I'm limited to MM3, and I've never had a system that was able to run the last dungeon in SoX.

    So I'm very very interested.





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Ahh, good old Win 2000
05/17/2016, 08:49:41

    Sudo writes:

    I'm pleasantly surprised that I could get two people on this forum to try Linux so quickly
    I will be rooting for you, hoping that it will be easy enough and pleasant to use Linux.

    If any of you try Puppy Linux and get a few Windows games working in Wine, I will clean up my config file for JWM (the window manager in Puppy), and my script for generating a launch menu for all your exe files. So you can have a quick-launch menu, much like in XP.





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You're going to have to guide me through this one, I'm afraid.
05/17/2016, 09:39:52

    Peter2 writes:

    The computers I use have always been essential for my business, so I've never dared to fiddle with them in more than the most superficial way. I pay some highly competent computer professionals to deal with anything above trivial that happens with my computers because if I screw them up, metaphorically I'm dead.

    The games, I know; the computers, I don't know.

    And I won't be able to do anything much in any odd-numbered month – that's when the work gets done.





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I hear you
05/17/2016, 11:54:31

    Sudo writes:

    But if you install a Linux distribution on a usb drive from Windows, there is no risk. Unless you are doing something you shouldn't from inside of Linux. But if you are just mounting your Windows partitions and installing Wine to play old games, you will be fine.
    In fact, you will be isolating your Windows install from potential viruses, as you will run everything from withing a very Limited Windows system (Wine), which has no access to your Windows installation. I've tried to run programs to read other Windows programs memory, and it doesn't seem to work. So I doibt many viruses could replicate in Wine. And of course, if your Windows system is air-tight to begin with, Linux poses no threat.

    Though there was a time when you had to set the refresh rate and resolution for your monitor, or the old crt monitors could overheat, or otherwise go bad. In the early days of Linux, which I've only heard about.

    At least it's not as complicated as that anymore ^^

    So it's as easy as having a 4gb minimum usb drive, and using the Live USB Installer I linked to, to install Xubuntu, Ubuntu, or perhaps Puppy Linux, which is just around 100-200mb's small, so you could install it on an even smaller drive.





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I think DOSBox can be a good solution for that problem.
05/18/2016, 16:45:29

    Ramillies writes:

    It's a DOS emulator for modern systems. When I play MM3 (or Master of Orion, or Master of Magic ...), I can do that comfortably on my main box just because of that.

    Moreover, I believe there are various advantages of using DOSBox over native DOS. It can, for instance, emulate inserting floppies. And it handles sound correctly (I don't really remember DOS, but I believe lots of these "goodies" were pretty random --- the sound either went OK (if you were really lucky), or it made unbearable noises instead of sound (if you weren't), or it didn't make any sound at all (if you weren't).) Etc.





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What Persistent file size setting do you recommend?
05/17/2016, 09:52:32

    Bones writes:

    I got the Xubuntu 64-bit ISO and Universal USB Installer. I read a bit and sort of understand Persistence. Is there a particular setting that makes the most sense for what we're doing?

    I'm also wondering if I should set up my USB so it could boot either to Linux or to DOS. There might be some old DOS games that I (or other folks who are following this) might want to play. Do you have any thoughts/recommendations for a multi-boot install?





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oh, the usb installer helps you with that too... i see.
05/17/2016, 11:35:43

    Sudo writes:

    It's been years since I used it, as I have a usb drive I made with Grub2 which I can just add any iso file to and boot. But that's good news that it helps you make a proper live installation on the drive.

    I'd recommend about 2-4gb. But in Puppy Linux I got by with 512mb storage/persistence files, and in Puppy you don't have to worry about exceeding it, as it has a program to grow it.
    And you can also get a lot of programs in .sfs (squashfs) files, which are mounted to the root file-system. In other words extensions.

    Anyways, if you want to use Xubuntu on a usb drive at all times instead of creating an ext4 partition, you will need 3-4gb. Probably. But even if you don't find some program to extend it with, you can create a new ext4 file-system in a file, mount it, set permissions so your user can write to it, and just copy the files from the old persistence file over.

    So perhaps just start with a 2gb file, and partition your drive from inside Xubuntu with GParted (just keep your Windows C drive intact), and run the install choosing the partition you made. This way things will load faster as well, especially if you've got an SSD. But Linux requires an EXT, XFS or other Unix file-system for its root partition. Which it can of course get on a VFAT fs as well, if it mounts the file-system file.

    I hope I clarified some things





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Let's keep this simple, then.
05/18/2016, 08:22:12

    Bones writes:

    I understand what you've written -- mostly -- but I'm guessing others might not. I now have a bootable Xubuntu USB stick with 4MB Persistence.




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sure, but I want people to learn as well, instead of thinking they can just follow instructions.
05/18/2016, 09:36:59

    Sudo writes:

    And I hope you mean 4Gb instead of Mb, as you wrote ^^

    Though getting a live Linux distro on a usb drive is simple enough, and requires no knowledge about Linux, it would be good to know quite a bit more.

    So do you have Wine installed, and some games to test it with? how are things looking?





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I've booted to my USB and finished the Xubuntu install....
05/19/2016, 09:59:23

    Bones writes:

    The Xubuntu install went well. I chose to install 'alongside' my Windows install.

    My motherboard made it a bit convoluted to boot to USB. It allows the user to choose one optical drive, one USB device, and one hard drive to boot from, but it includes USB sticks in with hard drives. I'll have to tinker with the BIOS settings every time I want to switch between Windows and Linux.

    (I also needed to plug in a wired keyboard to access the BIOS.)

    (If I make a habit of this I'll want to get a 16-32gig SD card. That would be classified as a USB device by my motherboard.)

    I see what you meant when you talked about USB drives being slow. I would have expected them to act like a SSD, but apparently they lack the controllers of the latter. I'm guessing that a SD card might be even slower.

    Now I need to install Wine (so I can run Windows programs). I see on the web that there are several different ways to do that and as many different opinions as to what's best. What are your thoughts? Please keep it simple for our more easily intimidated readers.





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The easiest and surest way is to install it from package repositories.
05/19/2016, 11:37:13

    Ramillies writes:

    That essentially reduces to firing up a terminal and issuing the following command:

    sudo apt-get install wine

    Repositories are one of the big advantages of Linux over Win. If you need a program, there are chances that it will be in the repos. If so, you can just invoke a clever program which will automagically do everything needed. You can just watch and/or go make yourself a coffee.


    Anyway, this is what you do on a normal Linux computer. I don't really know how did the tool you used set up the persistent storage, but I'd bet it will be hard or impossible to make the installation persistent. Certainly there is some voodoo which can be done in order to alleviate the nuisance of installing all the packages into RAM every time you boot the system up, but I doubt it can be done away with completely.

    If I were doing things like this, I'd make a custom Debian distribution which would contain the necessary packages, but as I see it, it is probably something you'd prefer not to do. On the other hand, if I (or somebody else) made that custom distribution, it could be packed up in one ISO file and everybody could fashion themselves their own M&M stick easily just with one use of unetbootin (and a little partitioning — but I'm not really sure how would I do that on Win).





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Edit: ...
05/19/2016, 12:26:36

    Ramillies writes:

    Well, I didn't really mean impossible, but certainly it can get a little difficult to achieve.




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An easy-to-boot-to OS alternative is what I'm stiving for....
05/19/2016, 17:21:28

    Bones writes:

    The bootable USB has been requiring a lengthy install each time I load it. I'm guessing that a user would need to install Wine every time they wanted to resume a game, also.

    And every time I run Xubuntu it resets my computer's clock to GMT. :-/

    What would it take to get a fully persistent installation? Could that be done on a 32gig USB stick/card? Or would one need a HHD or SSD?





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oh, not. what I expected!
05/20/2016, 04:36:56

    Sudo writes:

    So your best bet is Puppy Linux in that case.
    I thought I made it clear that Xubuntu isn't made for running live (sorry!), though you can run it without installing it, right?
    It was quite some time ago I used it.
    I was more going for the angle of seeing if Xubuntu works well on your computer, and then installing it on the hdd later.

    So get the official Puppy Linux distro at puppylinux.org

    Again, sorry for the confusion.





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I'd like to avoid going too far down the Linux rabbit hole....
05/20/2016, 09:35:44

    Bones writes:

    Most of our classic gamers aren't tech-savvy enough to fully endorse Linux. If we can give them a boot-and-run alternative then they'll go for it, but we'll lose them if we make them learn too much of the Linux culture and lingo. They will learn more over time, of course, but this is the way to get them over the threshold.

    Yes, it appears that a Puppy Linux distro would work best on a live USB stick. I've done a bit of research and found that Simplicity Linux comes with Wine built in -- a big plus for our audience. Simplicity's weaknesses wouldn't seem to be a problem for our purpose.

    The issue of missing graphics drivers will probably be important. There's a way to install them persistently on the USB drive, right?





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I've installed the Simplicity Desktop ISO on my USB drive....
05/20/2016, 15:46:14

    Bones writes:

    It's based on the Slacko distro of Puppy Linux with a LXDE desktop interface. It comes with several pre-loaded packages, so it's a very functional environment from the start. Takes about a minute to load. I set a 4gig savefile, so it takes a while to close down while the memory is being written to the USB. I'm pretty impressed, except that...

    On about my 5th boot it failed to launch the desktop and black-screened. It's supposed to revert to a setup screen on my next reboot but it doesn't. It looks like I can get to a command line with a 'nox' argument but I'm not sure what to do once I get there.

    Simplicity is reported to have Wine pre-installed, but I can't figure out how to invoke it. The Package Manager doesn't have it listed as something I can uninstall so I'm guessing that it's incorporated into the OS somehow. Anyway, clicking on a Windows/DOS EXE asks me what I want to use to run it. Where do I go from here?





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I've never used that distro ...
05/21/2016, 15:52:06

    Ramillies writes:

    The command-line way of doing things is, sadly, the only thing that is conserved across the systems. The "user-friendly" way of doing things varies wildly from one distro to another.

    As for the black-screen — it is practically impossible to give an advice, because I'm not really sure whether I would be able to do anything with it even when I had physical access to the computer; leave alone doing this kind of diagnosis at a distance.

    But since you are speaking about arguments ... could you tell me the boot parameters? (I believe you have already found how to get them.) The first reasonable thing would be to delete the "quiet" parameter, if present (and it is present for 99% of the time, since if it isn't specified, your terminals are flooded with lots of kernel diagnostics). Maybe you can get some useful insight into what's going on.

    As for the wine: the simplest way of checking whether something is installed is just trying to use it, so I'd recommend firing up a terminal and trying

    wine --version
    or perhaps
    which wine
    . It doesn't really matter. If wine is not present, you get an error message saying that nothing called "wine" could be found. If it is present, the first says (surprisingly) what version of wine is installed; the second says where exactly in the filesystem is the wine executable located.

    If it turns out that there is truly a wine installed, then you may try to move yourself into a directory which contains an EXE file (exactly like in DOS, there is a

    cd
    command for that; one of the more notable differences is that the path separator is a forward-slash instead of a backslash, so if you want to go into directory b contained in directory a, you would do
    cd a/b
    ). When you're there, just use
    wine (filename)
    to run it.




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Booting to USB stick -- follow-up
05/19/2016, 16:50:39

    Bones writes:

    My computers with American Megatrends BIOSs make it difficult to boot to a USB stick. It lumps those into drives and only lets you choose one of those as a boot option.

    My Lenovo motherboard is much more flexible. As long as I specify that I want the system to be able to boot to a 'USB Drive' then it can boot to it either automatically or manually.

    My old Phoenix Award BIOS is nearly as friendly, letting me select 'USB-HDD' as one of four boot options.





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A cool native feature of Linux
05/17/2016, 12:17:37

    Sudo writes:

    You can create ram-disks easily through a terminal, or preferably just putting the commands in a script:
    create_ramdisk.sh:
    #/bin/sh
    size=700000 #700mb
    ramdisk="mmgaming"
    this_user=$(whoami)
    sudo mkfs -q /dev/ram0 $size
    mkdir ~/$ramdisk
    sudo mount /dev/ram0 ~/$ramdisk
    sudo chown $(this_user):users ~/$ramdisk
    sudo chmod u+w ~/$ramdisk

    This creates a ramdisk in your home directory, and authorizes you on it. Must be run in a terminal, as you need to authorize yourself, as sudo (super-user do/act) is used, to give the user temporary super-user permissions.

    So, this way you can play all the old MM games in full speed. Though you have to load one game in at a time, as it's only 700mb. But if you have 16gb of ram, you can run your whole OS and more in ram ^^





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Nice to know....
05/18/2016, 08:30:30

    Bones writes:

    What I'm imagining is that users will feel like playing an old M&M game, boot to a USB stick, turn the clock backwards and tell Microsoft to get stuffed.

    It sounds like what you're suggesting here would have folks setting up a ramdisk on the USB stick and loading their game onto it each time they want to play. I was anticipating installing the game(s) permanently on the USB stick. Would that require a separate FAT16/32 partition?





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Sorry for the confusion!
05/18/2016, 09:29:07

    Sudo writes:

    I just mean that this is a nice way of getting the best possible performance out of games.
    And in Linux this is more practical than you'd think, coming from Windows.
    As you don't have to ever reboot if you don't feel the need to update your kernel. Just suspend to ram or to disk.

    You could also add amsimple cpmcommand to the create_ramdisk script, to copy stuff you want to have in it at every boot-up. Anyways, I was just exposing an interesting feature here, not some necessity for running Lonux.

    So you are entirely correct: you can just store your games on the usb drive, and also run games from your ntfs partitions.
    The thing is that a usb drive is oftentimes slower than a hhd.





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A nice thought.
05/18/2016, 16:53:13

    Ramillies writes:

    How is it going?

    I can't really help you with this one because whenever I made myself a bootable Linux USB drive, I meant to install the system on one of my computers once and for good. However, if something in Wine or DOSbox weren't going your way, I can lend a hand.

    That being said, Wine is now really good at running Win things and most of them run straight out of the box, without needing to resort to obscure settings and hacks.

    By the way, I wouldn't really bother even thinking about booting DOS. Just make a live Linux USB stick and install DOSBox alongside of Wine. They both do their work very well. Especially for the older games, they do it better than native systems. (An example to illustrate: I used to play Heroes II over LAN with my brother. I played at my Linux box, he used his Windows computer. Every 10 minutes or so, the connection dropped at his side. When I gave him another Linux box, we played for several hours without interruption, not mentioning that we had other goodies, for example real-time screencast from each box to the other.)





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Yes, Dosbox does works fine all the time as far as I know.
05/19/2016, 09:56:21

    Sudo writes:

    But then again, I've only played Daggerfall and MM4-5 + World extensively. Oh, I also ran Lords 2 quite a bit in Dosbox as well, as there was some graphics glitch in some version of Wine when running it in Wine.
    The only problem is that big games like Daggerfall would run pretty slowly on older hardware.




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Also, thanks for helping over here
05/20/2016, 04:40:42

    Sudo writes:





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There may be an alternative. I've been fiddling around with custom Debian distributions recently ...
05/23/2016, 08:02:47

    Ramillies writes:

    with some success, so after a few more days, there may be a suitable distro which will be specifically made to run these games.




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I'm very glad to hear that....
05/23/2016, 22:35:34

    Bones writes:

    I've been happy with how nicely the Simplicity (Slacko) distro runs on the USB, but I haven't gotten anything to run under WINE -- not that I know what I'm doing. I installed via the PM but I think I missing libraries. I haven't even gotten to drivers. This is the exact learning curve that I'm trying to avoid imposing on others.




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That's the reason why I went to try it.
05/24/2016, 07:29:05

    Ramillies writes:

    It's easy to get lost in configuring all the things, and if the system is intended just for an occassional use, it can grow into a major nuisance.




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