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MM 9 Ludwig Van's Manuscript
09/26/2013, 16:15:55

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Greetings and Salutations

    I just recently installed Might and Magic 9 as this is the only game in the series i didn't finish due to it's ridiculous amount of bugs in the game that forced me to just abandon the game several times. This time though, i am determined to finish the game whatever it takes , just to have that Certificate in the end . However, i ran into a problem right at the beginning. I am in Sturmford City and I'm on the quest to get Ludwig Van's Manuscript in the city sewers. Okay so i go down in the sewers, kill everything, loot everything, get the freaking manuscript, and get back to the city. The problem is, I cannot get out of town now .

    I was like this must be some kind of bad joke, but unfortunately it isn't. You know when you want to leave the certain location so that you can get to another one, a pop up window appears, asking something like 'Do you want to leave to Sturmford' or 'Do you want to enter Anskram Keep'. Well guess what, when i get back to town from the sewers, and i head towards the city gates, this popup window no longer appears! I'm like what?!? I try to go back to the sewers, the same thing, no popup window prompting me to confirm i want to leave the current location and enter the new one.

    Another thing, If i want to go sell some of the loot, the shopkeeper says I'm sorry but we are closed over night, and hah guess what, it's noon goddammit! I tried sleeping over several times, nothing changes.

    I have no idea what's going on, but this is frustrating, I just can't do anything. I tried replaying the game from the last savegame that had these things working, but when i go finish the Manuscript quest and come back, the same problem appears again and can't do anything.

    Did anyone by any chance come across this issue?

    I am running TELP 1.3 version of the game, with modified CShell.dll. I reinstalled the game, kept the savegames though, nothing is solved by that. The only thing i didn't try was to get rid of the game and start completely anew, which to be frank i really don't feel like doing. Any help here would be appreciated, i don't want to dump this game again for like the sixth time . Thanks for any help!





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This sometimes happens when the location corrupts. But don't worry!
09/26/2013, 19:53:58

    Peter2 writes:

    What you need to do is the following:

    1. Go back into the Beet Hoven, save your game, and then quit the game.

    2. Find the location of the game files, and in the folder called "minisaves" use Windows Explorer to delete all the files in there that start with "sturmfordcity"

    3. Load the game again, restore your position, and continue playing. You should find that now everything works.

    What you have done is to force Sturmford City to respawn, and this generates a fresh non-corrupt location. (As a bonus, you will even find that the two shamrocks that give skill point bonuses have regenerated. )

    All sorts of things can happen in this game, and in my experience, what happened to your game usually occurs at least once. Another time you may need to do this is when one of the teachers mysteriously vanishes.





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Works like a charm !!
09/28/2013, 14:11:51

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Hi Pete,

    Thanks a lot for your input here, your suggestion worked like a charm , I will keep an eye on that other situation you mentioned might cause the same problem to appear. I guess a lot of Savegames in this game is simply a must.

    Thanks a lot again for your help!





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You're welcome. *WATP*!
09/28/2013, 19:24:00

    Peter2 writes:

    One time that it is absolutely essential to have a backup savegame is just before you start any promotion dialogue. It is very easy to mess these up, and you don't get a second chance at them.

    Also, two of the promotion quests, those to Priest and Lich, cannot be completed unless you actually promote characters to those ranks.

    My two preferred parties for this game are the mixed party of gladiator, assassin, priest, and lich, and the pure magic party of druid, priest, mage, and lich. The pure magic party is a little weak in ranged combat (although the priest can use the best bow, and a lich can reach Master in thrown weapons), but a fully developed druid with GM in Unarmed and Dodge is IMO the best half-and-half character in the game. He has decent spells, and he's a very bonny melée fighter.

    It's a great pity that the game was never properly completed. IMO it had the potential to be one of the truly great Might & Magic games.





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re: You're welcome. *WATP*
10/02/2013, 18:08:14

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Thanks for your help again man. So far i have not come across any major problems, though I am keeping my eyes on things all the time, as I guess there are probably going to be some unpleasant technical surprises that I'll need to sort out in order to complete the game. Well, let's hope not. I am still in the first half of the game i believe, all my characters have gone through the first promotion. So now it's time to go shoot for the second one.

    The party I'm playing is Gladiator, Paladin, Priest and Lich. Or at least that's the direction towards which i'm going. This is the party formation that i have been playing since M&M 6, just instead of the Gladiator there was a Knight i think. And it's always showed up to be a good choice. Let's see how we'll do here . It's a good balance of brutes and magical characters. I didn't want to go for a pure magical party because at some point you might miss the brute force of fighters, and so the party i chose gives you a nice balance to enjoy all that.

    So far when it comes to the overall impression of the actual game, i regret to say that it is truly embarrassing, yeah i think that's the right word, an embarrassment. 3DO were a really talented bunch of folks, and it is a huge shame to end such a legendary series with this piece. Hopefully M&M X will be better than this, though under the wings of Ubisoft, I have big doubts. I hope i am wrong in my doubts, and they will not bury this great series completely.





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Actually...
10/04/2013, 01:21:12

    Bones writes:

    ... 3DO was was a bunch of short-sighted suits that acquired New World Computing, the studio that made mm1-9, in a weird corporate deal. 3DO knew they were going under and forced NWC to release the game before it was finished. UbiSoft bought the NWC assets when 3DO went bankrupt, but they really were only interested in the Heroes of M&M series. It's taken them many years to get around to MM10, they've avoided getting any of the original talent to work on it, and they've given the project over to a German studio. It will probably be a descent game, but it I'll be surprised if it has half the charm of the originals.




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re: Bones
10/06/2013, 06:15:59

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    You are right yes, they did a fairly bad job with Might and Magic 9, and as a fan of the series I am disappointed. I am actually playing MM9 now, i couldn't before due to a lot of bugs in the game. Now it seems okay with all those fixes applied, though you can see that it's an unfinished game.

    However, as you said the were a bunch of short-sighted suits. You may be right, they probably were, but they surely had talented people, because if they didn't then MM6-8 would not be such a great successes! MM6 is in my own humble opinion one of the most epic RPGs i ever played, and i did like 3 times already. When the game makes you want to come to it and replay it again, now that's a success. MM7 and MM8 were a little weaker than the sixth one, but still amazing games, i loved them.

    As you mentioned, the fact that UbiSoft is taking MM 10 under its wings now is making me feel a little pessimistic and sceptical about the whole development of that game. I cannot but somehow feel that something is not going to be right with that game, i have watched the videos of the gameplay. I understand it's the pre-alpha version, so a lot of stuff is missing, but I agree that it will not have not even the half of the charm of the originals. I can see the effort in there to stick to the originals, that's for sure, but i am not entirely sure that it will reach up the knees of the originals.





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I made some comments about the MM9 characters 5 or 6 years ago.
10/04/2013, 05:57:59

    Peter2 writes:

    And here they are.

    "Gladiator is the tank. You can armour him very heavily, or he can do huge damage when armed with a spear/sword combo. Gladiator is pretty good, but the real butcher is the Assassin. Get him tooled up with Black's Heart and another good dagger (I'm using Integris at present) as melée weapons, and Trolleri as a throwing dagger, and he does horrendous damage. When you push his blade skill way up, he has so many attacks that he does damage consistently - you're less at the mercy of bad dice rolls.

    Priest has the advantage that apart from the Ranger, only he can use the best bow in the game, Everstrike, albeit only at a normal level. He has massive healing powers and some good combat spells, including access to Poison Cloud at a moderate level. When armed with Spencer's Obedience, he also does a fair amount of combat damage. Lastly, you cannot gain the XP for the priest promo quest without actually promoting a character to that rank.

    Druid is probably the best compromise between a fighter and a magic user. He can GM the Unarmed and Dodge skills, and if you get his Unarmed skills up beyond the GM level, he gets an extra attack for every 3 extra skill levels, which makes him very effective in melée. He also has a bonny range of spells, although these don't include Poison Cloud. Biggest weakness is liable to be ranged attacks, because you're liable to want to give the other artifact bow (Kraftig Bage) to somebody else, and he doesn't have good inherent skills.

    Lich and Mage are very similar, but IMO Lich is slightly better. The Dark magic spells are more attuned towards combat damage, and he has access to Pain Reflection, which the Mage lacks. His top spell (Souldrinker) is better than the Mage's Eye of the Storm, and he can master the Thrown Weapon skill (arm him with the throwing axe Tillhygge) whereas the Mage can only gain expert in it. Finally, like the priest, you cannot gain the XP for the lich promo quest without actually promoting a character to that rank.

    Paladin and Ranger are both IMO a waste of space - use these only if you want to set yourself an extra challenge. A Ranger's only advantage over a lich in melée skills is his ability to use a wider range of weapons. Neither can get above expert in anything. OK, he's the only one who can GM in Bow and he can GM Dodge, but that's just about it; his magic skills are picayune. The druid, with GM in Unarmed and Dodge, is a far better melée fighter, and his magic skills are incomparably superior. The Paladin is better. At least he can GM armour, Blade & Cudgel, but his fighting ability is still greatly inferior to the Assassin and Gladiator. Also, his magic skills are simply ineffective, particularly later in the game when your high-level party meets higher-level monsters. You just try healing a badly damaged fully developed character with a Paladin's spells; it'll take forever, and use up most if not all of his mana - the Lich is actually a better healer than the Paladin."

    And then when somebody asked "BTW Who said Paladins and Rangers are underpowered in this game?" I replied:

    "I did. They are underpowered. OK, a Ranger can GM bow. Big deal. The assassin can GM thrown weapons, which is every bit as good as the bow, and in melée, the assassin's GM blade with two daggers does awesome damage. In contrast, the ranger can get only get to expert in any melée weapon. In fact, the Druid with GM in unarmed is a better fighter close in than the Ranger, and his magic skills are incomparably better. The only other things the Ranger can GM are Dodge, ID Monster (which is broken) and Perception. Like I say, big deal.

    The Paladin does better, being able to GM armour, blade, and cudgel, plus bodybuilding and merchant, but his magic skills are even weaker than the Ranger's. Expert in Light & Spirit and normal in Elemental is nothing to write home about. The Paladin is better at range, but I'll still take a Gladiator any day to do more damage close in than the Paladin, and the assassin will (metaphorically) leave him in a quivering heap either at range or in melée."





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@Peter2: Thanks for the tips
10/06/2013, 06:04:27

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Thanks for the tips man. One of the reasons i have chosen a paladin instead of a ranger or assassin, apart from sticking to my traditional party formation since MM6, is because I also want to enjoy a little bit more of a challenge . When i was deciding about this I thought this may actually make the game a little longer, and hopefully, more enjoyable because you'd have to work for it a bit more.

    I have just finished that quest where i was supposed to get the second part of the Lich Instructions parchment. Cleansed the whole Chasm of the Dead, those darn mummies in the last room required some strategy . In my experience, M&M RPG series were a lot about strategy in most cases . But it's all done now, Chasm is toast, and as you said, this is actually not the end of the quest. Gotta actually find a way how to become a Lich. Which is good because it's just another challenge, i can't wait for it though . I don't know how to Lichify my character at the moment, but I will eventually find out . See these kinds of things I like because some of the quests are not that easy.

    So far i came across a couple of quests where I was like emmmm whaaat?? Is that it?? You know these kinds of moments which make the game look stupid, and make you as a player feel stupid. So I hope there is going to be more quests which are not going to make it easy for you . I do not have high expectation of this game, i think it's better that way, because then ultimately if the game surprises you, it can only be a pleasant surprise. It's a big shame though, this game has a potential, it's just not used not even from the half of it.





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The Chasm of the Dead . . .
10/06/2013, 07:03:10

    Peter2 writes:

    . . . is IMO a lovely piece of work, which shows off the game's combat engine to best advantage. It is doable (just about) by a level 11 party provided it has a couple of characters with the Turn Undead spell and missile weapons, and it is still a decent battle for a party of level about 30, although of course it is much easier for the higher-level party.

    The start of the (long!) road that leads eventually to the place where you can promote your scholar to lich can be found in Thronheim, and your eventual destination will be pretty obvious when you find it. But you'll know you've been in a fight by the time you do the promotion, believe me!





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re: The Chasm of the Dead
10/07/2013, 17:11:31

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    That is very true actually. It is also good that the enemies re-spawn after some time, so for instance in Chasm of the Dead, which is not a small dungeon compared to others in the game, you could just come afterwards and get some extra experience by going through that all over again.

    Actually about the Lich quest, hah, i think i have already found out where i should go. I went through that tunnel in Thronheim, reaching Yorwick, got that little Bone artifact for the folks at Lindisfarne Monastery from the Wizard Lab, thrashed everybody around there, and eventually found a place called The Lich Lab. Something tells me this is the end destination for my little Lich quest . All my characters have reached their second promotion except the Scholar. It was not a big deal to get here, as i think the party is pretty strong already, at Level 30, and my last savegame is actually just in front of the Lich Lab , something to look forward to for the next days .





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You're absolutely right.
10/07/2013, 20:43:15

    Peter2 writes:

    In the Lich Lab, tackle the ground floor first, and then the level upstairs. Only then should you go downstairs - and save your game before you do, and keep a backup savegame, too. There are some difficult rooms down there, even for a party of your level.




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Don't mess with the Lich
10/09/2013, 15:20:18

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Sooo this is finally done . The whole laboratory is cleared and I finally got to finish the quest and got my character turning to Lich. Looks pretty awesome . Though i just found out that, once i went back to Lindisfarne Monastery to give the monks their lost relic, they even won't let me as the moment i enter they want to kill me . Something tells me I have done a mistake, i should have finished their relic quest before i took the Thjorad relic from their monastery for the Jarl in Thjorgard. I figure the only way to do this right is to replay it from one of the earlier savegames, which i really hope not because that would mean going way back .




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See if forcing a respawn works.
10/09/2013, 15:54:45

    Peter2 writes:

    Incidentally, there is a way of getting Thjorad without getting the monks all steamed up. The guardians of the relic are not excused from attending prayers, and if you can find out what the call to prayer is and sound it, they will leave you in peace to "recover" (*ahem*) the weapon.




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re: See if forcing a respawn works
10/10/2013, 11:47:40

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Thanks for the info. Though the issue at hand is a little bit different here .

    Thing is that i already have the Thjorad . I took it way before i even completed the Lich quest. I had it in the inventory all this time. So the problem is not with the bells etc, all that has been done when i got Thjorad in the first place, and everything was fine, everybody behaved as if nothing happened.

    The thing is that now when i got their lost relic from the Wizard's Lab in Yorwick, and want to give it back to them, I cannot because the moment I step into the Monastery they attack all of a sudden. So i am wondering if there is any way i can make them all calm again, obviously without having to whack them all ;].





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re: re: See if forcing a respawn works
10/10/2013, 12:02:40

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Actually, not sure if that's what you meant in your original email, but I just thought of deleting the Lindisfarne Monastery Minisaves from that folder, and see if that could maybe do the trick...




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Yep, that's what I meant.
10/10/2013, 14:58:09

    Peter2 writes:

    Just go out of the front door, save your game, delete the lindisfarnemonastery minisaves similarly to what you did before, and see what happens.

    BTW, were you aware that there is a quest that you need to do before the Abbot will accept the relic?





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Relic is back
10/11/2013, 10:47:42

    Garrigue the Smith writes:

    Okay good, i thought so, and it actually worked. Monks were all fine again, and Thjorad was there again too , even though i already gave it to the Jarl in Thojrgard previously, everything re-spawned, which then means i can take the Thjorad again and keep it for myself this time .

    Actually i can't remember right now, I am doing all the quests, so i probably didn't miss that one you just mentioned. In any case, Abbot accepted the relic, i got my money and experience, and everybody is happy . Slowly running out of quests to do though, something tells me I am slowly approaching the end of the game. The only thing i need to do now is slay the dragon, that bastard is a little tough, will need to think of something , and then whack the frost giant in Frosgard and that's it. Let's see if there are any more surprises





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I thought it would be.
10/12/2013, 16:59:52

    Peter2 writes:

    IIRC, that quest starts in the Inn in Thjorgard, when a guy whose name I can't remember directs you to the Training Centre, and then tells you go see the abbot, who asks you to get the relic. I'm not 100% certain, but I seem to remember the abbot won't introduce the relic quest until after you've done the Training Centre.




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Hey Garrigue
10/13/2013, 17:29:13

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