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Magic seems woefully inadequate in MM9
08/14/2010, 09:19:42
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Oldtymer writes:
Am I missing something?
It seems like magic is woefully shortchanged in MM9.
For one, spells just don't seem very powerful, especially low-middle ones.
For another, it takes quite a while before you can get even mid-level spells (due to where they have put the magic promoters, and the promotion levels needed).
At this point, I have a L20 party, first promotion quests done.
Up until now, I've used almost zero magic (other than healing). Things like elemental bolt just seem so bloody wimpy - my initiates could do about that damage using their staves, and that was quicker\didn't use up mana.
Even now, I still don't see a huge plus for it. Mid-level spells look to have a bit more punch, but the mana cost seems quite high by comparison. Again, am I missing something?
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Well, I can't comment
08/14/2010, 15:43:16
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Zedd writes:
too much on that since I never use offensive magic in any RPG I play. Magic for me is for buffs, travel, and healing only.I also always play in "Iron Man" mode, that is Dead Party=game over. I also do not allow aggresive saves/reloads and never allow party or character editing. In MM9, I always keep the current game and 2 backups which are only used in the event of the frequesnt lockups that occur in that game.
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No offensive magic
08/14/2010, 18:39:29
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Oldtymer writes:
Wow - it's hard for me to imagine MM6-8 without say Meteor Storm. I remember the one map in MM6 with literally hundreds of drakes closely packed together. Even with meteor storm they were hard to clear. That one was always my favorite, as it was the map-clearing spell. Incinerate was nice for packed rooms, there were always a few good ones. What seems strange, though, is that the other MMs seemed magic-heavy, while MM9 seems just the opposite.
The other change is that with so few barrels\fountains, character creation is much more important. In the other ones, who cared since they'd all have stats over 100 shortly anyways? I gotta agree that I liked the ironman part of the early Wiz games. Not only were you dead, but your disk was immediately altered, and you couldn't copy the disk! As a result, you had to be VERY careful as to what you did - no reloading!
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Magic is weak in MM9 until your characters are fully promoted.
08/15/2010, 15:28:55
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Peter2 writes:
The killer spell in this game is Poison Cloud, but again, you need to be a fully developed Mage or Lich before it packs a real punch. You also need to know how to use it to best effect ...  There are also some spells that just don't work well, like Magic Mine, Eye of Leggib, and a few other. See what you think!
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The Priest's Poison Cloud
08/15/2010, 19:39:57
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Zedd writes:
also works fine. I used to use it all the time on that big Dragon (and I have never used a mage or a lich).Don't use it any more though since I found that a fully developed Assassin gets 10-15 hits with dual daggers (depending on Blade skill) and I use two of them now, my favorite party being GAAP. The Priest only casts Devine Intervention when needed.
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The Priest's Poison Cloud works well for most purposes, but ...
08/16/2010, 07:30:31
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Peter2 writes:
... it is considerably less powerful than that of the mage or lich. You only notice it with powerful opponents - like the mega-dragon  .
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Yeah, but that's a LONNNNNGGGG time!
08/16/2010, 23:36:44
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Oldtymer writes:
Fully promoted?
Wow, that takes up a good part of the game right there.
I'd offer that it's needed more early on than later - heck, even my L30 mage has 300+ hp by now. I can hack and cleave through most critters, whereas early on when everyone could be taken out by a few dragonflies, well, that's when a nice fireball would hae come in handy! OTOH, I can appreciate that you actually have to pay attention to what you do, and have a real strategy. You just can't blunder along and bash everything.
Same goes for money. Usually in MM you're as rich as Croesus by the time you hit L15! This time around I actually had to work to raise money to pay for the next round of training!
Now that I have GM merchant it's not a big problem, but that didn't happen overnight. All in all, I wish they'd have used quite a number of the elements of MM9 in the earlier games.
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Wasn't it in MM9 you could get money by cheating?
08/17/2010, 17:50:10
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Stålhand (aka Steelehand) writes:
It just took the right hireling and a bank. [Looks around for memory  ]
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Absolutely right.
08/17/2010, 18:24:26
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Peter2 writes:
But towards the end of the game, it's the only way to get your characters the money they need for their promotions, so I think this is a perfectly justifiable "feature." There's no way you can get enough by normal means. I must say that I personally don't use it until then, but my viewpoint is well known - if anybody else wants to use it they have an absolute right to do so, and I'm not going to criticise even by implication.
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My question is
08/18/2010, 09:10:03
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Zedd writes:
how can something that was included in the progeam by the developers be called cheating?If you want to call that cheating then I can say (since I don't use it offensively) that using magic intead of weapons is cheating. 
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*ROTFL* Now that's what I call Logic! 
08/18/2010, 09:44:53
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Peter2 writes:
You're a man after my own heart, Zedd!
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Here - " " - I forgot those in my message. Put them where they belong.
08/19/2010, 04:15:38
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Stålhand (aka Steelehand) writes:
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Money for promotions
08/22/2010, 11:00:00
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Oldtymer writes:
Actually, I have more money than I need for promotions.
With a GM merchant, I get tons for all the treasure I pick up.
While it may run 20k gold to have everyone go up a level, I am getting more than that off the critters they toast.
Yes, higher levels cost more to promote, but the higher you get, the better (and more valuable) loot you get. And yes, the developers released the game with the bank "feature", and yes, as a result it's fair game to exploit, though I doubt anyone believes this was intentional on their part. It's just one more bug (out of many) that wasn't fixed when they rushed the game to the market when it should have been in beta testing.
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And how about this "feature"?
08/22/2010, 11:18:32
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Oldtymer writes:
Chests that restock every time you leave the dungeon.
Set LB by a black chest, teleport in and out a few dozen times and voila! You have all the relics!
I don't know which dungeons do this, but the Lich Lab and I believe Dook's Castle do. Verhoffin too, I think
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So do the ...
08/23/2010, 12:06:34
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And let's not forget 15,000 free EPs
08/23/2010, 23:42:45
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Oldtymer writes:
in the lich lab.
Open and close the lich machine, each time you get 15,000 EPs.
Spend an hour doing that and you've gone up 40 levels!
I'm sure that was by design, right? :-)
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Well, you know the game was
08/24/2010, 00:40:55
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Zedd writes:
rushed out the door over the objections of the design team because it was not finished. 3do was in the process of dying and the game was released without proper testing to try and save the company.Obviously, the ploy failed since that caused more problems than management had expected and they went bankrupt even faster. If all that hadn't happened, maybe we would have MM10, 11, 12, etc. Who knows?
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mm10
08/24/2010, 07:32:46
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Oldtymer writes:
I doubt there would have been any more.
The gaming world was changing - shooters and action games ruled.
(Plus everything was about graphics, and fast-paced action was demanded. CRPG's take too long to build up - too much time spent on development, while strategy and action are often at odds with each other.
If there had been a market for CRPGs, then JVC could have gone to a new company and designed one there. (Think DWB and Wizards and Warriors - another hastily rushed game. For that matter, why almost 10 years between the release of Wiz 7 and Wiz 8?)I guarantee you someone could buy the rights to M&M if they wanted to (and probably cheaply, since it ain't earning much for them now!) If they were to release a new game, it would be greeted with great enthusiasm by the fans of the series. But alas, that's like trying to develop a new denture cream - why bother going after a small (and shrinking) market, no matter how passionate they are about your product? The bottom line is that, given the smaller (albeit dedicated) market for CRPGs, they simply take too much time and cost to develop. There's a much better return on games that are quicker, easier, and cheaper to develop, and find a greater audience among those whose idea of strategy is "if it moves, blow it up!". :-)
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Regrettable, but accurate.
08/24/2010, 15:49:15
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Peter2 writes:
It's in my nature to deplore the deplorable, but it doesn't change the facts, does it?
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