What did you use to edit the terrain? That stuff looks great.

Did you make those buildings yourself, or did you just rip them out of the Erathia games?

Overall, I'd say that's a great start...the framerate was smooth, the textures looked good...If I saw those screens on the back of a box, I'd throw down cash for it. And believe me when I say I saw games at E3 being made by pros that didn't look as good...

now comes the hard part...the game systems and the content....course that's where the fun is.

Thanks for your kind words... coming from a man of your experience within the industry I'll take that as quite a compliment

A heightmap bitmap is used to generate the terrain. To edit the heightmap I started out using a freeware application called Total Terrain but in the end I ended up writing my own little app so I could have more control.

For texturing I used a freeware app called Heightland. Again though, I ended up writing my own app that allowed me to paint textures directly onto the terrain.

The buildings are all my own work (apart from the textures obviously). I found this one of the harder parts of creating the demo - I'm no 3D modeller (you can probably tell!).

3D max might end up being to expensive to use, and it's a lot more complicated to learn than something like radient or DEdit. My first recommendation was going to be to support one of those editors, but I'm not sure if their license would all you to use the editor to make something for another game engine.

I've worked with all 3 editors (Radient, Max, DEdit) and I think that if I had my personal choice, 3D max would be the editor I'd choose to use...(I've been using it for a year and still have barely scratched the surface of what you can do with it.)

And considering your claim of not being a 3d modeller, you did a pretty decent job on those buildings. In fact, I must admit that I thought they came straight out of MM6.

Anyway, if you have any technical questions you need answered, I'd be happy to help. I'm a regular lurker on this board, so don't be afraid to ask them here....and I'll answer them here so everyone can share in the answers.

Warning to others: Techy stuff ahead.

There is already a 3dsmax exporter available for the 3D model format that the demo uses, so for individual models Max is already supported. As to using it as a level editor my main concern would be performance. Exporting everything from max would make it more difficult for me to implement occlusion and level of detail code.

At the moment the outdoor terrain has a level of detail algorithm (ROAM) that reduces polycount at a distance. This allows the engine to see much further without too much decrease in performance. This feature is built into the programming language that I’m using. If I were to export terrain as a max mesh for example I would need to come up with a whole new level of detail algorithm.

For the indoor levels, an occlusion system (similar to that used in BSP models in Quake3) will be used. This was not used in the demo as the level was quite small. Each individual object within a level (barrels etc.) also has it’s own culling parameters that ensure they are only drawn when required. Again if I export a completed level from Max it would complicate this optimisation as I would need to try identify which parts of the mesh to optimise and when.

On a personal note, I find 3ds max incredible confusing and difficult to use. I realise it’s extremely powerful and an industry standard, but I just find it difficult to get to grips with. My models were created in Milkshape which is cheap, easy to use and idiot proof

I already have an in-house level editor of sorts that was used to produce the demo. It allows me to position, scale, and rotate individual objects, set up properties for them, triggers etc. but it’s not exactly user friendly!

My next task (which I’ve already started) is to produce a more feature packed editor with a nice GUI that will allow someone with little experience to produce a completed level for the game. It will not be possible to produce a complete level using only the editor, additional tools would be required (it won’t do 3d modelling as such – it will be purely a placement and game editor).

The time that it’s going to take me to produce a level editor will allow others (hopefully!) to help to produce a storyline, maps, game design docs etc.

If you think my approach is flawed then let me know. Thanks for the offer of technical help. I may just take you up on that!

having said that, another thing that you might want to or already have thought about is a conversion utility from various other file formats to your own...different people have varying degrees of skill in different editors, and I've found it useful to do things in one edtior and then convert it to another.

Here's an example....All the terrain in MM9 was done in 3D max. using Lithtech's max converter, we converted the max files into DEdit files...we spent a long time trying to figure out the best way to do terrain in DEdit....to which the answer is,...use something else.

As far as max being incredibly complicated and difficult to use, you're absolutely right...right now it's still my favorite, but I doubt I could make the Lindisfarne Monastery in it yet...for me the biggest hurdle is figuring out how to do things I already know how to do...fortunately, the project I'm working on now I'm not responsible for creating the level.

One bit about the tools is it's best to try to make it as user-friendly as possible...the most important thing to pay attention to is stability. both to keep it from crashing and prevent the saved file from being corrupted. There's nothing more frustrating than losing 8 hours of work from a crash or corrupted data.

Anyawy, if you want some suggestions on level editing features, lemme know. I'll be happy to provide you with some.

Try using a download manager so you can resume the download if it gets interrupted.

I use "Download Accelerator" which works great. You can get a free 14 day trial from www.speedbit.com

Another well known DL manager is Getright (www.getright.com) which also has a free trial.

I suggest you try one of these two.

Somehow I doubt 3DO will ever release the source code to any of the older MM games, very few companies ever do, which is a shame...

No - the game engine is my own creation. It's kind of a mix of MM8 & MM9 styles - the terrain is more like MM9 (fully 3d - you can go underwater etc.) but it uses 2D sprites for monsters, npcs etc.

Where to start! I am simply amazed!

Sir Felgar, you have made a terrific demo! I have played it through and explored the map and I have only good things to say! From the most beautiful landscape to the Son of David Lee Roth singing just a gigolo/ain`t got nobody and the Freedeo tombstone inscriptions, I really felt like part of another MM. I was expecting Nicole Kiddy Friedman to be Tom Crusoe`s fellow castaway, though

To answer your question: YES this is worth pursuing! Very much so! I will try to give you some tech-feedback via email later tonight, but be warned.....I`m not much of a techoe...:o

The link provided below is to my game certificate...*LOL*

Tom Crusoe and his fellow castaway are a mix of Robinson Crusoe and Tom Hanks. I used Tom Hanks because I was watching the film Castaway at the time I coded this bit.

There are more "in-jokes" in the demo, (especially if you live in the UK - the whole Bucklefast Abbey and tonic wine story takes on a different light!). I always enjoyed these "oddities" in MM games, hence their inclusion.

I too love the oddities and the easter eggs. Look forward to see this project evolve!

Music fits in perfectly! (even though it is midi!) I must say music is my most favourite part in a game becuase you may have to listen to it for a looong time.

The 2d models I hope your not going actually use they are way outdated.

And the walking sound is yuk! Maybe you could impliment a walk volume or change the sound all together it sounds mushy even when you walk on the wood.

And I came across a problem involving memory. My screen went to desktop. And came up with a message "Out of Memory Range".

But besides that Its F**K*N GREAT! Keep it up.

The music is by Bjorn Lynne from his website www.lynnemusic.com. Check it out as he has lots of music available for download.

2D graphics - the original intention was to create an engine that would allow graphics of at least a similar quality and style to MM6-8, hence the 2D sprites.

If there are lots of 3D modellers and animators out there who wish to get involved then great we can go the fully 3D route but I suspect this is unlikely.

MM games never were about a cutting edge 3D engine - it was always about the game itself, the story, character development, combat, skills, spells etc. IMHO.

The walking sound was the best I could come up with at the time. Interestingly the “walking on wood” sound was “borrowed” from a very high profile, well known commercial game. So if you don’t like it blame them

One thing I missed though (maybe it's there but I overlooked it): looking up and down, that would really help during mountainclimbing.

In the dungeon I had some problems finding the smaller passages, arrow on the minimap seems not totally accurate.

Keep up the good work!

Yeah - the minimap is a bit of a kludge at the moment - it works but it's not totally accurate!

However, to avoid confusion I will refer to the ongoing effort as MMT.

When does it occur? Does the demo load at all? What set-up is your PC?

The more info you can give me the easier it should be to find a solution.

regards

How long am I willing to put into this? Well, I've put about 500+ hours in to get this far, so as long as it takes basically!

Put it this way, if you were talking about producing something of the size and depth of MM6-8 then you're talking about years of work rather than months.

Can't really beat it for price though. Having said that - worth checking out Anim8or and Wings3d, both are completely free 3D modellers. Also free is Z-Modeler (think that's it's name - mainly aimed at modelling for 3d racing games but could be used for modelling anything).

Not any more, amazing demo sir Felgar, combining the best of mm6-8 with a better graphics from mmIX.

Few small details, nothing big but I didn't like the footstep sounds it didn't sound realistic. When turning on the rain and then turn around it kinda lags a little, this happens not without rain (could be my 800 mhz thunderbirt though).

As for everything else, it looks plain awesome.

One question though: if this project goes further (hoping hoping hoping) will the artwork be the same as mmVI-mmVIII, I'm thinking about weapon graphics and monster and all, or is there a possibility that there will be new monsters, weapons, armor etc etc.

It's all down to who gets involved in the project and what their skills are. If we get people involved with 3D modelling and 2D art skills then expect loads of new stuff.

If not then I would expect as a minimum - new items (weapons, armour, quest items etc), SOME new monsters, new buildings & dungeon graphics etc. as I already have plans for these in place.

Yeah - you're not the first to comment about the footstep noise - best I could do at short notice!

Even considering the fact that quite a bit of the visuals (denizens, building interiors, etc) were taken from previous MM games, your efforts show that where there's a will, there's a way.

I personally think MM9 would have been much nicer (visually, at least) if it had a game engine like what the demo used. Of course, I have read that the Lithtech engine is capable of far more than what can be seen in MM9.

You've maybe already visited Psionics site, if not, he has loads of fantastic tutorials (including a Zombie!).

30 years ago, I used to teach programming (COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC, etc. I wish now I'd stayed current, I would love to help out. Unfortunately I'm so far behind the "power curve", it's hopeless.

Firstly - are the sprites the correct shape, but pure black in colour or are they normal colours but with a black box round them?

Is it just NPCs that are black? Do the other 2d objects outside appear ok (barrels, flowers etc?).

If you go into the Dungeon (Wine Cellar) do the sprites look ok (NPCs & torches for example?).

Specifically in the dungeon - there are two paintings (of Goats - Meh!) on the walls of the High Priests room. Do they look ok? (If you're not sure where they are - let me know).

Sorry lots of questions - but I could really do with some feedback on this problem. If you'd rather E-mail me than reply here then my E-mail address is: sirfelgar@mmt.34sp.com

In the wine cellar, the barrels are correct shape and color as well as the torches. (incedentally the camp fire near the obelisk is correct shaoe and color.

Other small items on the outside (broken cart, rocks, trees, ect) are all correct shape and color, as well as the bridge.

I wasn't able to do to much inside the wine cellar as I came to a dead end and couldn't find the "secret door". I can see (on the mini-map) that there is alot beyond that wall. If you'll tell me how to get through that I'll explore that wine cellar more fully. I'm sure I could do it on my own (sooner or later).

Hope this helps and again, keep up the good work. BTW: I' located in Olongapo City, Philippines (retired U.S. Navy and retired Jr. College Instructor - Central Texas College) so my time is about twelve hours out of sync with yours.

The only real difference between the outdoor and indoor level is that the outdoor uses a DirectX light to simulate the Sun. This adds a bit of shading to the terrain and buildings.

Looks like this light is causing problems on some setups. In hindsight I should have offered an option to disable it but I didn't think it would be a problem.

The reason the campfire outside looks ok is that it's set to be fullbright which means it ignores any lighting and always looks fully lit.

Hopefully this should get fixed when I convert all the sprites to be custom built quad meshes in the future. In the demo, the trees are quad meshes - and I've not had any reports of them looking strange (yet!).

You can E-mail me at: sirfelgar@mmt.34sp.com

MAKE IT,

All fans with skills,join this,

Plot suggestion:

What if we returned to enroth after mm8 and enlisted ourselves (the party) in king Rolands army?

Potential enemies:
A barbarian warlord (Crag Hack maybe?)
A necromancer cult (Sandro?)
The elves still pissed off at the timber wars?
And what happened to Archibald (Rolands brother) after mm7? (He was exiled i know but do you think that will stop him? Really?).

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