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Theoretical question
11/27/2020, 18:28:54

    Eric B writes:

    This question is for anyone who has an idea of the entire planet of Enroth as a whole. But, this has really been gnawing at my mind lately, and the curiosity finally got the best of me. So...

    I was wondering how long it would take to get to Emerald Island (MM7) from New Sorpigal (MM6) by boat.

    I DO know that it takes exactly one week to get from Emerald Island to Harmondale; the numerous adventures I've started, this time always seems to be the same. However, that travel really makes no sense, as you leave the island by boat, but end up out front of Castle Harmondale once that animation ends.

    I'd appreciate any insight anyone can give on this.

    Thanks!





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First off...
11/28/2020, 01:09:42

    Rustavius writes:

    ...Harmondale is landlocked.

    Because of this, we have to assume that the week of travel time includes a coach ride from either Erathia or Tatalia; possibly Tatalia since Lord Markham was the one hosting the contest.

    Comparing the topography of the map of Enroth against the map of Erathia, I'd say the two landmassess probably broke off of each other at some point in the distant past, with Erathia sliding southeast of Enroth. Vori then becomes a glacial remnant left between the two landmasses, much like Greenland is between North America and Europe. Emerald Island would probably be south of Tatalia, given the tropical climate, and possibly even positioned roughly opposite of Regna from Jadame.

    So, given New Sorpigal's position in the south east corner of Enroth, I'm thinking it would be about a 10 day trip by boat, but I'm also curious about what others might think.





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Re:
11/28/2020, 04:26:47

    Eric B writes:

    I'd come across a map somewhere of the planet Enroth, which showed Antagarich way off to the southeast of Enroth. It's on Artstation, if anyone's interested. Though, I do understand that it's just one artist's rendition, and not the "Official" world of Enroth. Though, the "Official" map of Antagarich shows Emerald Island more east of the Tularean Forest

    Looking at Antagarich in the artist's rendition map, I noted a tiny island southeast of Nighon, which looks every bit like Emerald Island to me.

    I'd figured easily three weeks from New Sorpigal to Emerald Island, anyway. As for going to Harmondale, looking at said maps, I'd say five days to Pierpont, then two days to Harmondale from there by stagecoach --- as it's four days to Tatalia from Harmondale (Two to Steadwick, two more to Tatalia from there.) Alternatively, it could have been two days to Steadwick, and five (By foot) to Harmondale from there.





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That's an interesting question. I would say ~ 2 months.
11/28/2020, 09:58:55

    Ramillies writes:

    (It's nice to see how each response proposes much longer time than the previous one! )

    Look up the intro for Heroes III on YouTube. It starts with Queen Catherine saying "Seven weeks have passed since we set sail from Enroth". So we can assume that the sail from Ironfist to Erathia (Steadwick?) takes 6-8 weeks, depending on how much time you lose by evading pirates and monsters (there's also a discussion about this at the Celestial Heavens, see the link).

    We also know that it takes 1 week to sail from Steadwick to Evenmorn Islands. So I opened the map in GIMP, drew a rough path between the two places, and measured the length. The length was 3490 px, which makes it roughly 500 px = 1 day of sail.

    So now we know Ironfist → Steadwick and Steadwick → Evenmorn. So now I just use some guesswork to guess a point X, which is where the paths Ironfist → Steadwick and Ironfist → Emerald Isle part. Then we get

    Ironfist → Emerald = Ironfist → X + X → Emerald = Ironfist → Steadwick - X → Steadwick + X → Emerald. (1)

    So now it's only a matter of more GIMP measurements. We find that X → Emerald = 3380 px = 6.8 days and X → Steadwick = 1158 px = 2.3 days, so, plugging into (1), we get

    Ironfist → Emerald = 49 + 6.8 - 2.3 = 53.5 days.

    Now New Sorpigal is pretty much on the way, and the sail from Ironfist to NS takes 2 days, so the final result is ~ 50 days (plus or minus troubles with pirates & comp.)

    image

    Related link: The Celestial Heavens discussion

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(Apparently the boards don't want to include the image, but if you copy its location and paste it in your browser, you will get to it.)
11/28/2020, 10:00:13

    Ramillies writes:





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Re: Emerald Island
11/28/2020, 16:47:16

    Eric B writes:

    Interesting. What I find most interesting, in going over that, is the location of Emerald Island, toward the southeast of Antagarich. Only because it's been said that Emerald is a tropical island, yet its location on maps seems to suggest that it's farther south than the tropics should be -- it looks to be near the frozen southern edge.

    On the other hand, it could be in a warm ocean current, which does affect the climate IRL.

    I'd say six or seven weeks would be a reasonable estimate.

    PS...the map in that link you posted at Celestial Heavens is the same map that I'd found elsewhere and referred to.





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You're absolutely right, a warm current can have a huge effect.
11/28/2020, 19:41:53

    Peter2 writes:

    There's a village on west coast of Scotland called Plockton which has palm trees growing along the harbour wall, and Plockton is on roughly the same latitude as Sitka, in SW Alaska. (It's actually slightly further north.) That's the effect of a warm current called the Gulf Stream.




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I was wondering about the position of Emerald Island too.
11/29/2020, 00:22:19

    Ramillies writes:

    Actually on the big world map, it looks pretty weird, because it looks like a tropical island right next to Antarctica.

    However a warm current could be a great answer. I knew that these have a great effect (and that the Gulf Stream makes a lot of Europe warmer by a couple of degrees, perhaps), but the palm trees so far north, that's just amazing!





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Plockton
11/29/2020, 04:19:29

    Peter2 writes:

    It's a delightful place. We visited it many years ago when we were holidaying in the Highlands. Those were the days when the local pub sold sandwiches made with locally caught salmon – they were absolutely delicious. I doubt very much if you'd get anything like that now.


    Related link: http://www.lochalsh.co.uk/plockton.shtml

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Enroth Transit Times
12/02/2020, 17:09:34

    Eric B writes:

    I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on my theoretical question. The main reason I was asking this is because I got hit with some inspiration while at work about a month or two back, and decided to write a fanfiction based on an adventure in MM7 that I'd started, just for said story.

    However, I'm taking some "Artistic liberties" in the story to explain away some of the discrepancies in the game (Such as the aforementioned Emerald Island to Harmondale by ship debacle.) I'm also using "Artistic liberties" to elaborate a bit more on a few other people, items, and quests that are encountered.

    So, in my story, my party consists of two male humans, a female human, and a female elf. Roderick and Alexis have the same icons as originally given, while Zoltan and Serena are also humans. In my story, Zoltan is a Ranger, Roderick is a Druid, Serena is a Cleric, and Alexis is the Sorceror. All four are lifelong friends that came from New Sorpigal, and heard of the Scavenger Hunt through a flyer that they got in the mail one morning.

    I probably won't do anything more than put it up on my social media, where I have other short stories that I've written over the years. This is the first Medieval adventure that I've attempted to write, and probably the most violent story in general, so I'd probably rate it at least Teen.

    Thanks again, everyone!





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NPC Availability Determination
01/26/2021, 10:48:51

    Eric B writes:

    Well, one good thing about writing my fanfiction is that it's made me do a lot of experimenting and note-taking with MM7. Having said this, I have noticed something about the NPCs that can be hired.

    For starters, I've noticed that some certain NPCs are not available in some specific locations. For instance, you can't seem to find a Gate Master anywhere in Harmondale. (I can understand not finding one in Emerald Island...) It seems like other "Powerful" NPCs (Fallen Wizards, Wind Masters, etc.) also can't be found in Harmondale.

    Has anyone else noticed this?





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Looked into my spreadsheet for MM7 and found...
01/26/2021, 18:41:20

    ragwort writes:

    that NPCDIST.txt file controls NPC areas of availability. Hadn't noticed before.




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NPC Availability
01/27/2021, 17:53:14

    Eric B writes:

    Thanks for that file information! I did a little further digging, and found that someone has deciphered the information in that file, and posted the information on the MM7 Tavern! This was done about a sesquidecade ago, but it's still quite useful. I'll post the two threads on this response, for anyone else who may be interested.

    http://telp.org/mm7/tavern/anyboard/posts/21953.html
    http://telp.org/mm7/tavern/anyboard/posts/21954.html





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Town Portal
02/18/2021, 08:14:32

    Eric B writes:

    Well, from writing my fanfiction, I've noted something else of interest about Town Portal.

    Upon first arriving at Harmondale, I decided to do some experimenting. So, instead of going into the castle, I headed directly to the stables, waited until they offered passage to Pierpont (As that post above shows NPC availability, and that you could find a gate master there.) So, I went there to hire a gate master. Upon finding and hiring one, I had them cast Town Portal...but the only place available to me was Pierpont; even Castle Harmondale wasn't available!

    So, I decided to try another experiment: restored back to Emerald Island, went to Harmondale. This time, I went directly to Stone City. Hired a gate master there and...upon casting Town Portal, NOTHING was available!

    So, it seems like you have to somehow or other visit the places (Apparently just in the maps, as I NEVER drink from the fountains in any of my games!)in order to activate Town Portal for said area, even if you have a hireling to cast it.

    Seems like in MM6, that's not necessary, as you can go anywhere, any time as long as you the ability to cast it. I think in MM8, you have to drink from the specific fountains to activate it. And in MM9, you have to find the Town Portal pedestals and clean them off to activate them.

    It's quite interesting what all I've discovered, just from writing a simple short story about the game!





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And have you finished it yet? I would be eager to read it .
02/26/2021, 18:43:35

    Ramillies writes:





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Fanfiction progress
02/27/2021, 17:47:53

    Eric B writes:

    Sadly, I'm nowhere near finishing it. Work and life keep getting in the way, so I've been writing in little spurts here and there, whenever I have a chance.

    Also, I often times end up loading the game to test theories, and to experiment --- so all too often I end up getting distracted by that.

    The good part of all of this is I still have a job.





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I see. I also really like that you base the story on experiments with the game .
02/28/2021, 09:01:07

    Ramillies writes:





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Fanfiction
02/28/2021, 13:32:22

    Eric B writes:

    While I'm trying to keep as close to actual game play as possible, I did end up taking a few artistic liberties in my story. One such liberty was finding a Gate Master in Harmondale; in the game, it cannot be done, but in my story I decided to have it so that one approached my party in town, looking for work.

    Another liberty I took was the party's background --- in my story, they're all lifelong friends from New Sorpigal. Thus, I do have a few nods to MM6 in this one...and the group's being from halfway around the world also helped me come up with a small dispute among the four shortly after arriving at their ruined castle.

    It's definitely a little more time consuming than I'd anticipated, but it's slowly coming along. When it's complete, I'll let you all know.





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Writing sample
04/02/2021, 10:36:08

    Eric B writes:

    OK, so I've decided to share just a small snippet of what I've written thus far. This takes place after the party clears the monsters from Castle Harmondale, but before the place gets fixed up. So, at this point, they're going through all the trash that's all over the place, and trying to salvage whatever they can find.
    ++++++++++++
    ...they decided to head back to their new home. Walking inside, they decided to take a better look around their castle. Since Zoltan had basic perception, the four agreed that he should be the one to pick through all of the garbage that was strewn around, since he'd have a better chance to avoid getting diseased from picking through the piles.

    In the foyer, they found five piles of rubbish. In three of them, Zoltan found some leather armor. He found a hammer in another one, and in the last one he found a pair of leather boots. Everything he found was given to Serena, so that she could sell it off.

    Making their way down the hall, they went to the corner tower room, finding a couple of more piles of trash. These yielded some old, rusty chain-link armor.

    "This looks more like it's fit for the junkyard than anything else," Roderick commented, as he looked it over.

    "You aren't kidding!" Serena answered, as she gave the armor a disapproving stare. Then, she put it in her pack. "But then, the armorsmith could probably melt it down and make it into something worthwhile!"

    "Or, we could also wear it," Alexis said, with a smirk. "Then we could be knights in rusty armor!"

    Serena tilted her head at Alexis. "Wouldn't you rather be a knight in white satin?" She finally asked, "I always thought that sounded much better!"

    The two men rolled their eyes, and then the four turned their attention to the two barrels in the back corner of the tower room.
    ++++++++
    For the rest? Guess you'll have to wait until I've finished...thanks to work and life, I've been writing in little spurts here and there, but it's slowly coming along.





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Nice!
04/07/2021, 20:16:13

    Ramillies writes:

    I think that in this scene, it's almost mandatory to include some of the snarky comments that the characters in MM7 have when you identify items. Off the top of my head, I can remember "What a piece of junk!" and "Bah, it's useless!" I'm remembering these fondly, because the characters often said aloud just what was in my head at that moment . It would be a nice "easter egg", and well in line with the default character names from MM6 .

    By the way, for me the first two paragraphs sound a bit too much like just a recount of a MM7 game being played and not an "actual" story ("Zoltan had basic perception", ..., "he'd have a better chance to avoid getting diseased" etc.) But of course, that may be what you actually want, and even then, I'm seeing it only because I know the game reasonably well. However, if you by chance wanted to replace it, you could use something like "(...) they knew Zoltan had sharper sight and quicker reflexes than the rest of them (...) and rummaging through those piles of rotting garbage swarming with insects and rats could easily get you ill if you weren't careful". You could also make him moan at times about how they make him pick through all the disgusting stuff they find. But don't let me interfere with your story too much...





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A bit on my writing
04/07/2021, 23:16:18

    Eric B writes:

    My story is, more or less, a combination of a recap of a game, with a little "Artistic liberty" thrown in, hence my constant experimenting with the game.

    I do have a couple of comments from the characters thrown in. One such comment would be when they get some lunch at the tavern; they ask the innkeeper to bring them some, and he answers "Right away!" Also, I kept the dialogue in getting and completing the quests very close to the originals.

    Plus, since in my story my party came from New Sorpigal, I have several nods to MM6 thrown in, including a brief hypothesis as to what eventually happened to the party from MM6 who saved Enroth -- which was mentioned in passing during a conversation between the MM7 party.

    I will say that to a MM7 fan, it will seem quite familiar, or to one who hadn't played it in a while, it will trigger the memory. To non-MM7 players, I'm hoping it stirs up some interest in the game.





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That sounds like a material for a sizable book...
04/08/2021, 03:28:54

    Ramillies writes:

    so I guess you will have to cut a lot of the side quests and so on?

    Anyway, I think that if you can muster some more interest in MM's with it, it will be good. Of course, the games are old and the graphics weren't that good even when they came out, but all the content is well worth giving it a play.

    As for the character comments, I think that the ones that people remember the most are the snarky ones. "Right away!" didn't really stick in my mind; however I'm sure everyone can recall the little "dialogue" that occurs when you visit a shop and don't buy anything. "See you, cheapskate!" - "Well... I? Never!" Or maybe better, "Rot in hell, you penny-pinching miser!" -- that comes from MM7. At least they tend to give a good chuckle to me, even if I know about them.





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Story
04/08/2021, 09:58:26

    Eric B writes:

    I am adding side quests also; one that's already in there is finding Elron Temper. I didn't do the whole dungeon to find him in the story, though -- it was just in, straight to where he was, grab the deck, slay the intervening monsters, and out. A lot of that quest involved dialogue. Also, the Arcomage deck is working a bit into my story. Mostly for the party to try to get their minds off of what's going on in the evenings.

    My stories tend to run long. Most of my fanfiction is about a guy who works as a board op at a radio station, so trying to keep ALL modern conveniences out of it has been a REAL challenge to me in itself. No radio, no TV; the only communication is either face to face, or by mail.

    Also, upon entering dungeons, I do have one of the characters make their initial comments; "I have a bad feeling about this place!" when they entered the White Cliff Caves, or "Ewww. What's that smell?" upon entering Castle Harmondale, for instance. And, of course, I have them scream "CHARGE!" when they decided to explore the rest of Castle Harmondale, before all the monsters in there were slain. So, I am including some of the comments from the characters into my story. I only wish that I could figure out where the sound files are, so that I could hear ALL the comments...

    I always got a chuckle out of the merchants' comments when the party leaves without buying or selling anything. I've found that that only triggers if the party has 10,000 gold or more on them. Anything less, and those comments don't trigger. My two favorite comments were both in Mount Nighon: "You can't take it with you, Tightwad!" from the armorsmith, and "WE DIDN'T NEED YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY!" from the magic shop. I do plan to work those in, somehow, once they finally do get to Nighon.

    Slowly but surely...





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Comments and sound files...
04/08/2021, 18:50:45

    Ramillies writes:

    I guess you are in luck because I had a bit of time and I was also interested in all the comments. So here you have a link to a ZIP file with all the comments in low quality mp3 . The character comments are numbered (not named), but I tried to compile a list of what the numbers mean (see the file character-sound-numbers.txt in the archive).

    (It will expire in 30 days, so be sure to save it somewhere on your computer.)



    Related link: Extracted sounds (11 MB)

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Sounds
04/08/2021, 19:56:00

    Eric B writes:

    Wow, that's just what I was looking for. Thanks! I'll have to go over those at some point, figure out which characters I have in my party, and go from there.

    Definitely a few ideas starting to light up...





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You're welcome...
04/08/2021, 21:37:25

    Ramillies writes:

    By the way, the character comments seemed to be differentiated according to the race and gender, so I sorted the different combinations into different folders. I guessed that D = Dwarf, E = Elf, G = Goblin, H = Human and Z = Zombie. However there are two more characters, LM1... and LF1..., and I have no idea what that L could stand for, so I just put them into the folders L-male-1 and L-female-1.

    If you recognize what they are, let me know please.





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LF and LM
04/09/2021, 15:56:14

    Eric B writes:

    I gave a listen to a few of the LF files. The L stands for Lich. So, you are correct that M and F stand for Male and Female.

    On the Dark path, the final promotion for your Sorcerer is to Lich. So, that character's icon (As well as their paper doll base) also changes to that of a Lich, to reflect the change.

    The female lich's response to the rude merchants (Example: "Thanks for nothing, Moneybags!") is one of two answers: either "THAT was rude!" or "Doesn't anyone have any manners anymore?!"

    By the way...my story is going to have BOTH pathways; once I get to where I need to make the decision, I'll make it a sort of "Choose your adventure" type. So, I'll have something like "If you want to follow the Light path, continue to the next chapter. If you prefer to follow the Dark path, skip to Chapter XX." Because, whenever I play MM7, I always make a save when it's announced that Judge Grey passed, then I'll make a second save for the dark path. I like some of the Dark Magic spells, but the cons outweigh the pros on the dark path.





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Thanks! I thought that liches get a different portrait and voice only in MM8.
04/09/2021, 17:20:15

    Ramillies writes:

    Both of the responses to the rude merchants are there, in files LF144a.mp3 and LF144e.mp3 (in the directory L-female-1). By the way, it's really a bit weird to listen to the polite greetings that even the liches have. At least if I met a lich, the last thing I would expect him to say would be "Good evening" .

    A "Choose your own adventure" is a really nice touch, but of course double the work. When you said "fanfiction", I thought it would be perhaps a couple dozen pages at most, but this really looks like you have much to write yet. Good luck with that! (Anyway, I will read both when you're done.)





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Weather in MM6/MM7
04/20/2021, 12:22:58

    Eric B writes:

    Well, in doing my experiments, I've noted something else about MM6 and MM7 -- this concerns the weather encountered in the game.

    I've noted that sometimes, you have foggy days, and sometimes the fog is a lot thicker than others. There also seems to be a setting which has the fog always on, for Mire Of the Damned in 6, and Evenmorn Island in 7.

    Though, I've found that if you take a stagecoach to Darkmoor for the first time you go there, or a ship to Evenmorn Island, it's usually clear when you first get there. Subsequent visits has the fog turn on, and also, if you overnight there, the fog hits the next morning.

    If you don't want to contend with the fog, there seems to be a way around it, I've noted. When you first go there and it's clear (Walking there doesn't work, only stagecoach!) set a Lloyd's Beacon there, and teleport out before nightfall. Next morning after sunrise, teleport back. No fog!

    Just another interesting observation; anyone who wishes to chime in, feel free to comment.





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