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Well, I started MM7, but...
11/20/2020, 00:32:27

    Rustavius writes:

    It ran well. No problems setting up a party and doing a first run through temple on Emerald Island. When I reloaded, the music wouldn't play, although it had been playing. The configuration tool wouldn't load, and then the game became very trippy, running in boxed windows, etc. I set it to run maximized and checked compatibility, etc, but that made things worse.

    So, I uninstalled, then reinstalled, and now I get an error which reads "The procedure entry point_AIL_lock_mutex@0 could not be located in the dynamic link library mss32.dll. That will pop up twice, but I can get into the configuration tool, however I cannot launch the game.

    Any suggestions?





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I recommend using Grayface patches.
11/20/2020, 11:13:39

    ragwort writes:

    Search for "Grayface" for link. Read "Full list of changes" file. Current versions are v2.4.




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I would also recommend that, although I have no idea about what is causing your problem.
11/20/2020, 12:50:50

    Ramillies writes:

    So the patch may prove to be unhelpful.




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Can't hurt to try. :-)
11/20/2020, 19:14:30

    Rustavius writes:





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Are you using original discs? If so, I highly recommend the GOG versions
11/20/2020, 23:08:50

    Ossie writes:

    All the heavy lifting has already been done to make compatible with current hardware & OSs, & GOG occasionally has specials where you can get the MM1-9 package for <$10. I too persisted with my original purchase discs for years, but they eventually became too difficult to resurrect on newer systems. For all the pleasure the series has given me, was happy to pay for again DLC versions that worked immediately




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I might get myself these.
11/21/2020, 06:56:04

    Peter2 writes:

    I shall be sorry to lose the ability to play the v1.0 version of MM6 when my old laptop expires, but on the other hand, I no longer have a machine which will handle MM9. As long as I'm not forced to install a client program to run (i.e. "interfere with"!) the game, I'll be happy. Well, reasonably happy!




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The GOG packages are really good.
11/21/2020, 07:50:11

    Ramillies writes:

    Of course you will lose the possibility to play your beloved vanilla, though .

    They sell the MM's quite cheap, and from time to time they put them on sale, which means that they're dirt cheap at that moment. I haven't ever had disks for MM7 & 8, so I purchased them there, and they happened to be on sale. I paid something like 2.5 Euro total for them. I played through their MM7 without any problems. (Though I added Grayface's patch and played under Wine, which often works much better than playing the old Windows games under Windows!)

    GOG also makes it the priority that the games suffer from no DRM, additional "clients" etc., and they do a great job. (And they have to, because some of the customers can scream very loudly whenever they see anything that looks like DRM, even if it's not. I would even say that some are a pretty nasty lot. You can routinely read comments like "YOU MUST CONNECT TO THE GAME SERVERS IN ORDER TO PLAY LOCALLY! THAT'S DRM! I WILL NEVER BUY FROM YOU AGAIN!!!!!", while the others try to calm them down by pointing out that (e. g.) if they stop screaming and click the button "Play Locally", they will be able to play locally.)





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I am using the old discs
11/21/2020, 11:21:38

    Rustavius writes:

    MM8 is running well, though. I was playing around with it last night as a cross check against what happened with MM7.

    Will the MM7/MM8 editors work with GOG? There are some bugs which we sometimes need to get around, like the lich jar thing, etc.





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I guess so, but I haven't tried.
11/21/2020, 11:47:04

    Ramillies writes:

    However, if you install Grayface, I don't think you will need any bug workarounds. At least I didn't need any in my first playthrough of MM7 (for Light side).




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I can't find the link now, but I believe GOG versions incorporate all "usual" patches up to Greyface
11/21/2020, 19:00:58

    Ossie writes:

    I don't remember patching any of the versions I downloaded, and they play as I remember the patched versions playing. So Peter2, you won't be able to play vanilla, but as you say, it's getting to the point where current hardware/OS won't handle vanilla anyway.

    And there's a generally a reason for the patches!

    You can definitely play locally - GOG does have a client, but I don't know if you *can* even play the MM games on the client: there's no co-op options, and they are too old for anyone to have bothered making "achievements" etc for them, which would be the only other reason to play via client (Ubisoft with MMX is an entirely different story, however)





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Thank you, Ossie.
11/22/2020, 13:12:51

    Peter2 writes:

    That relieves my mind!

    I've heard a few things about Ubisoft that I don't like, and I wouldn't touch one of the games running under their system with the proverbial bargepole.





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Their "GOG Galaxy" is just a program that can help you access all your GOG games from one place.
11/22/2020, 13:37:47

    Ramillies writes:

    I don't think there's much more to it. In any case, it's absolutely not needed. When you pay for the game, you will get access to all the downloads associated with it and you can download everything (the installer, often there are manuals, soundtracks and more goodies) without any limitations, and you don't need to jump any more hurdles to play.

    (The sad consequence is that the GOG setup files are very popular among people who don't like to pay for their games — obviously there's little more a pirate could ask for than a complete game, often patched and set up to run correctly on modern systems, without any kind of protection. On the third hand, GOG seems to be prospering anyway, so apparently you can run a good business based on trusting people.)





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Update to patches on GOG versions
12/04/2020, 17:00:03

    Ossie writes:

    Well, all this talk made me keen to start yet another game, this time MM7 - should post this in the newly opened MM7 Tavern but it's more an answer to Rust's general qn.

    As per previous post, I'm sure I've previously used all GOG versions on current kit, and they played as if fully patched. But when I fired up MM7 it was contained in a 4:3 box and did not stretch to my widescreen monitor (not windowed, a full-screen game but just in a 4:3 box with black bands down both sides). Some Googling revealed a new Greyface patch that I didn't remember, so I installed it and this fixed the game to run on full widescreen.

    BUT, in a surprise I definitely haven't seen before, Greyface has played with the positioning of the interface to take advantage of all the new widescreen real estate. The character portraits are still in their familiar place along the bottom, but with space between them rather than the familiar solid bar (so you can, for instance, collect objects, drink from fountains etc by clicking in the space BETWEEN the characters!). Further, the status icons I remember being in the top right have been split so resistances are now in the top left while buffs (Haste, Heroism etc) are in the top right, and again in a see-through chunks rather than the familiar solid box. It is a VERY nice feel and a wonderful surprise!

    For those who care, I normally play the Light path because it suits my stand & bash-it-out style rather than continually entering TB to use magic. But this time I really wanted to see the Druid's familiar, which I've never used before, so it's a Dark path game. Cleric and Sorceror are pretty much standards for GM Protection From Magic and Lloyd's Beacon, not to mention Shrapmetal, so that left the muscle. The Thief really seemed to fit the mood, so I'm going with TCDS. Have just promoted the Sorceror, reached Nighon to activate Town Portals, and installed Judge Sleen in the Arbiter's house so we'll see what trouble this group can stir up!





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Fascinating! Please let us know what happens.
12/05/2020, 15:03:12

    Peter2 writes:

    I started a Dark Path game with a Druid many years ago, but I had to leave it for a while, and when I returned to it, I found I wasn't enjoying it. So I never got to the point where I saw his familiar.

    I never liked the Druid in this game. After he's prepared the black potions, I judged him to be a near-total waste of space. In this game especially, there is a significant difference between the capabilities of a master-level character and a grandamster, and I found that it was nigh-on (pun fully intended! ) essential that all members of the party should be able to GM at least one combat skill. A Druid cannot do that. He's a loust fighter, and he can't GM any magic skill. He can GM Alchemy and Meditation, and that's all.

    And a comment in passing – I thought Meditation was a singularly pointless skill for the Druid to have. All those extra spell points and nothing worthwhile to use them on . . . *sigh*





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Druids in MM7
12/05/2020, 19:08:40

    Ossie writes:

    I've never used the Druid in any MM game, for the reasons you describe. But she was pretty much the central reason for starting this game. The Warlock (Dark Druid) promo is one of, if not the, hardest in the game: firstly it's in Eeofol, which is difficult enough to get to, and then it's in the Dragon Cave, which is too tight to squeeze through with Invisibility.

    You don't get the Black Potions until fully promoted, obviously, by which time you could argue the stat buffs are less useful. And you can generally find the Black Potions in the right shops, if you're willing to reload.

    But I made it my central goal to get her promoted asap, and I actually enjoyed the challenge rather than another run-through with my standard min-maxed parties with all GM skills. She's definitely not as strong, but it's new as I've never played a Druid before, and there's a certain satisfaction in getting through the Eeofol Tunnels and the Dragon Cave at a much earlier stage than otherwise. If you do this, the Black Potions are actually useful at this earlier stage, and you've collected enough raw materials by this point that you can mix them all up as soon as she gets promoted, which gives you a satisfying single bump to all your characters' stats. She can dual-wield daggers and learn Armsmaster, so she's a handy enough fighter, and the Dark path game is less conducive to melee anyway. And she's also a handy backup healer, buffer and elemental school supporter. Overall, I'm glad I played her, but you do need to pick the rest of the party around her.

    One final interesting thing is that when I emerged from the Eeofol Tunnels, I got the screen where Archibald appears and gives you the Blaster, along with the story about having been deposed within the Pit. I'm nowhere near that advanced in the actual game, and when I went back to the Pit, Archibald was still in Castle Gloaming as normal! The game obviously never expected people to reach Eeofol this early and the Archibald screen is hard-coded on exit from the tunnels, despite the coup being linked to your completion of his "adviser" quests





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Thank you. That's very interesting, especially about Archibald.
12/06/2020, 04:46:15

    Peter2 writes:

    I did try and get through the Eeofol tunnels early in one game. I managed it but, like you, I found it quite a challenge. I found survival in Eeofol quite a challenge, too! I can't remember exactly what I did to get out of there – it was a long time ago.




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Druid (Spoilerish)
12/06/2020, 06:00:50

    Eric B writes:

    I always keep a Druid in my party, only I don't use the black potions on my party at all. Instead, I mix up the black potions to sell off; I always also have a Cleric in my party, so having a GM Merchant really rakes in the money! (Cha-CHING!)

    On the Light path, the Druid actually does fairly decent in melee battle (MASTER dagger!) As well as magic attacks -- they can Master all magics except light and dark. On the other hand, Druids can only possess basic bow knowledge, so ranged attacks really aren't their strong point, unless they use magic.

    Also, the familiar on the dark side really isn't all that remarkable; seems like it provides a bonus to promoted Druids' stats, but it requires an extra day of food when resting. Unlike in VIII, where (If memory serves -- been too long since I played VIII) dragon hirelings enable the party to fly, this one doesn't even provide you with that.





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Dragon Flight
12/08/2020, 11:51:36

    The Elf writes:

    Having played MM8 many, many times, I can state unequivocably that yes, having a dragon in the party enables the entire party to fly. I tried the alternative (i. e. killing off the dragons,) but felt too sorry for them to like that side of the quest!

    The first time we visited China, Papa Elf and I visited a jade workshop. (By Chinese definition, just about all workable semi-precious stone is "jade." For example, we saw the traditional green jade, and rose quartz as "pink jade.") Papa Elf admired a small "brown jade" (jasper) figurine of a dragon. He is now sitting on our mantelpiece, and his name is "Ithilgore."





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Druids and Eeofol
12/06/2020, 15:44:53

    Ossie writes:

    There's a teleporter back to Harmondale in Eeofol (must be activated from Eeofol end first, then it works both ways). You come out of the tunnels away from any enemies, so you can fly straight to the teleporter and heal up before actually tackling Eeofol.

    When I said the Druid can dual-wield daggers, this is at Master level, getting the chance to triple damage. They can also learn Leather to Expert, removing any recovery penalties, so their action economy is quite good, making them a capable enough fighter, behind the Knight, Thief and Paladin. Probably also the Archer due to better HPs and dual swords, although I've never found the Archer to be that strong either. I'd say the Druid is slightly ahead of the Ranger despite the lower HPs, due to the general weakness of Axes. Never played a Monk, but I can't imagine that Unarmed damage keeps up at higher levels, even with Staff added on top.

    The familiar also gives +3 to all magic skills, so if you develop to max your spells are at level 10 without being GM level, a useful bonus. There are some overkill elements: GM Meditation is a bit of a waste, as you say, even moreso as the familiar also gives the Druid SP recovery - she has far more SP than she would ever use. (Meditation as a concept always fit the Monk best to my mind, but obviously with the game mechanics it would be virtually useless on a Monk. If it had some sort of HP bonus as well............)

    Overall, I probably prefer GM-maxed characters too, but I've actually found the Druid a solid backup everything, without being hugely strong at anything. Backup just means making sure she has something better to back up - you want to pick a standard basher, healer and magic-slinger to round things out, rather than your 4th slot being a second of one of those.





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The best Druid I ever came across in these games was the one in MM9
12/08/2020, 16:57:05

    Peter2 writes:

    One of the finest "half-and-half" characters I ever played. He made the Ranger look an absolute wimp. I wish I could remember more about MM9. It's so-o-o-o long since I played it, and now I no longer have a computer that will handle it.




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The GReyface patch got me going again.
12/12/2020, 01:13:36

    Rustavius writes:

    This fixed the problem, and MM7 is running again. I just had to find time to download and install. Thanks for the advice on it.




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