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Is this still serving as the MM7 forum?
09/08/2019, 12:51:18

    The Elf writes:

    If so, then I have a question: what is the optimum starting make-up of an almost-beginner? (Almost, because it's been years since I played beyond the first island. That said, I do remember the technique(s) for defeating the Dragonflies.)
    While I used to favor might over magic, nowadays I prefer a healthy blend of the two. And I definitely prefer Light over Dark (in magic, not chicken or turkey!)Thanks to all.




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I see by my old records. . .
09/08/2019, 13:10:46

    The Elf writes:

    . . .that I finished the game (probably before The Millennium) twice, once with ASCD, the other with RCSS. (The characters' names were Crazy Bear, Fruit Fly, Ribannah, Dragon, Klaravoyia, Kiwi. . . I wonder what happened to them all?) Obviously, both these line-ups are viable, but hanged if I can remember how effective they were.




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My thoughts
09/18/2019, 08:18:14

    Ossie writes:

    Hello, Elf, I've seen you in here a lot over the years but we've never "spoken" directly in a post. I'm sure others will chime in, but I feel confident this is a fair summary.

    Unsurprisingly, "optimum" parties in MM7 are very different for Light and Dark, and I'm sure you remember that about half-way through the game you will be required to make an irrevocable choice between the two. So first thing to say is that your starting party should be chosen with your eventual choice in mind.

    Regardless, I believe your first character choice in MM7, at least as a non-experienced player, must be a Cleric. Cleric gives you a bunch of useful Body Magic protections & buffs that are even more useful at GM level, but the most crucial of all of these is GM Protection From Magic. This gives you immunity from eradication, instant death and all those annoying one-shot-kill attacks that can mess up an otherwise standard fight.

    Secondarily, a Sorcerer could also almost be considered a "necessary" character for a non-experienced player. You need at least one player able to GM Water Magic: firstly, Town Portal for fail-free escape from situations that don't turn out as you want. And secondly, Lloyd's Beacon obviously makes travel much easier. LB is a GM Water Magic spell in MM7: unlike MM6, all spells in a school aren't able to be learned by anyone who has the magic skill. Spells in MM7 are only able to be learned if you have the necessary level in the skill.

    So I'd be starting from a point of having a Cleric and a Sorceror, regardless of might/magic or Light/Dark preference. The other two characters will definitely depend on a number of factors.

    It's commonly accepted that might parties better suit the Light path, while the Dark skills better suit magic parties. Given your comments, I think your first choice should be whether might/magic or Light/Dark is your primary preference.

    If you choose Dark, then Shrapmetal will generally be your primary combat strategy (eventually). I note from other posts that you haven't really used it before and don't necessarily see the value, but I assure you it's the single best combat spell in the game at GM level. Because of the way that the fragments fly out in different directions from the caster, Shrapmetal is all about getting right up close & personal with the opponent (generally melee range, and perfectly as close as possible), centering the opponent on the caster (remembering the "position" of the various characters from left to right), and letting fly. With a Dark party you will relatively quickly get to a point where Shrapmetal outclasses any melee damage, so the consensus ultimate Dark party seems to be CSSS, which gives you healing and GM Self magics (including PFM), and allows all characters to cast GM Shrapmetal. But is a little one-dimensional, and vulnerable at lower levels. People seem to like it to allow specialisation of their Sorcerers and maximum waypoints with Lloyd's Beacon, which allows them to pump Dark Magic (ie Shrapmetal) without having to spend skill points to max out all four Elemental schools.

    For alternatives, with Dark Magic there's no point substituting a Sorceror for an Archer, which gives you no Lloyd's Beacon and no Dark Magic in exchange for average melee. But a Druid is a solid choice, especially as a character that may traditionally get ignored. A Druid gives you the same Elemental magic as an Archer but also a second healer. Similarly, a Knight may help you in the early stages but quickly gets outgunned by Shrapmetal, whereas a Thief gives you solid muscle & melee in the early stages before you develop Shrapmetal, but also Disarm. So in all, I'd start with CSSS and depending on preference, swap one or two of the Sorcerors for a Druid and/or a Thief.

    If you choose Light, you're absolutely committing to melee as your primary combat style. I've used KKCS with great success if power-gaming is your thing (or KTCS if you want traps to be easier), but again it's a little one-dimensional. A popular alternative, especially if you prefer a blend of might & magic in your party & fighting style, is PACS. This gives you double healing & double Town Portal (albeit only at Master level for the Archer), but every character also has access to Light Magic. This is definitely overkill for the vast majority of the Light spells (once you get up the standard GM protections and buffs, they last for days), but you do this for one specific reason: it allows every character to cast Paralyze, which is the most useful combat-based Light spell in the game. It can sometimes end up with 4 characters unsuccessfully trying to Paralyze a single opponent over multiple rounds while 10 others beat down on you, but against a smaller number of opponents, when it works, it makes combat a breeze.

    The final thing to mention (because I'm sure Peter2 will say this anyway!), is that the Light-path-specific quests are arguably more "satisfying" than the Dark path quests. The Light promotion quest in Light territory gives you some interesting non-combat options, and a Light party getting into Dark territory is definitely a tougher battle than a Dark party moving around in Light territory (although it's entirely possible to run around avoiding combat until you're strong enough to wipe out the enemy easily, rather than fighting to clear the area as soon as you are able to enter, which is Peter2's much-loved strategy of "Light party taking on The Pit).

    Hope that helps





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Light vs. Dark (sigh)
09/18/2019, 12:37:10

    The Elf writes:

    Hi, Ossie. First, are you from "Oz"? Papa Elf and I spent a delightful two weeks in Cairns and Sydney some years ago. (We preferred Cairns.) It coincided with Anzac Day, which was interesting, to say the least.

    I played MM7 to the finish at least twice, and started many, many other times. I have always preferred might to magic (probably because I'd been bullied so frequently as a child,) so I invariably ended up on the Light side. Every time I tried Dark, I just could NOT hack the "Dark Dungeon." The Celestial trial dungeon was, to me, a piece of cake compared to the Dark side. So I'll probably choose Light again. (Besides, it's interesting seeing the old "heroes" from JVC's original "King's Bounty:" Lord Haart et al.)

    Thank you very much for the help--good on ya, mate!





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Agree
09/18/2019, 20:11:36

    Ossie writes:

    Yep, I'm from Australia. Now in Sydney, originally Newcastle, a couple of hours north up the coast. And Cairns is wonderful (as long as you don't go in the ocean where there is more that can kill you than virtually any other place on earth, and avoid the bars filled with stoned backpackers!).

    I too prefer Light, mainly because that "fits" the overall MM story across games, and my re-plays now are all about trying characters that I ignored the first few times. But as Peter2 says, choose characters that will eventually be able to GM the skills that suit your preferred play style. Enjoy!





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As Ossie predicted, I largely agree with him
09/18/2019, 13:07:22

    Peter2 writes:

    I greatly prefer magic-heavy parties. In MM7, I'm a great believer in the usefulness of having an Archer in the party. He's virtually the only character with access to Light magic and more than a basic thieving ability (fully developed, he can get to expert). I tried a thief-free party when I first played this game, and I got SO sick and tired of having to repair my party from trap damage in Stone City because I couldn't open chests safely that I resolved "never again"! If you can find/steal/buy a half-way decent item of Thievery or the like, an Archer is a perfectly adequate thief. Also, in the early stages of the game, he's your safety net if you run into trouble – he's significantly tougher than the cleric or the sorcerer. Additionally, he can use some of the lovely weapons and armour that would otherwise go begging in a pure magic party, and so be sold.

    So for a Light Path party, my preferred option is indeed PACS, as Ossie recommended. You've got two decent fighters, and all four members can cast Paralyze. And as Ossie said, I find the combat tougher and more satisfying.

    For a Dark Path party, the one I preferred was ACSS. This does give you a much easier ride, combat-wise, and there's a danger that you might consider it boring.

    One other thing:– I found that in MM7, a party member needs to be able to grandmaster (GM) either combat spells or a weapon to be able to pull his full weight through the whole game. Mastery alone just doesn't cut it. Here is where the Druid falls down badly, because the only thing he can GM is Alchemy. I played one party which included a druid, and after he had prepared the black potions, I found the rest of his powers woefully inadequate. The only time he was able to get close to a full combat contribution was when using Meteor Shower; apart from that, he was used a couple of times when the Cleric either ran low on mana or got damaged. Even then, his spells were less effective than the Cleric's. (This was the reason I had no time for the Ranger in MM9.) I admit his high merchant ability and alchemy are useful support functions, but his GM in meditation and the consequent abundance of spell points are largely wasted for lack of top-line spells to use them on.

    So to summarise: to get familiar with the game, KTCS; my recommended Light Path party, PACS; and my recommended Dark Path party, ACSS. And if you want to try the Druid, do it in a Dark Path party – at least you'll get to see the dinky little dragon familiar!





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I definitely agree on the suggestions for Dark here
09/18/2019, 16:35:32

    Greate Pier the Worse writes:

    For light however, I remember that the Monk was quite an interesting character to have... by no means optimal per se, but certainly interesting.
    If I recall correctly, a Monk on the Dark path promotes into a Ninja, but is definitely less spectacular than the name suggests




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