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MM7 working on 64bit Win8 MM6 will be next
02/21/2019, 04:39:06

    Liliths Slave writes:

    The autorun doesn't work - just tries to detect configuration and doesn't do anything else so I opened the disk and ran setup.exe which installed the game perfectly.

    The disks aren't recognized so I installed Grayface's patch to enable playing without the disk.

    I disabled 3D audio.

    NOW TO PLAY!





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Brilliant – well done!
02/21/2019, 13:22:47

    Peter2 writes:





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I had forgotten how difficult MM7 is at the start
02/22/2019, 05:56:49

    Liliths Slave writes:

    It is so hard to get your skills and basic spell books because you never have enough money. Fighting is slow and tedious and even something as puny as a goblin lord takes time to kill. It often takes so much time to reload bows that I wonder if my A key is working properly! I can't mix a simple purple potion without somebody having an alchemy skill. The game becomes more fun later on but IMO contains too much tricky stuff to be anywhere near as enjoyable as 6 or 8. One thing I do like in 7 is the regeneration spell - it has kept my characters alive on so many occasions.




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The thing that killed my pig over MM7 was . . .
02/22/2019, 07:51:09

    Peter2 writes:

    . . . the inability of any party to have access to both Light and Dark magics. For me, that was a total turn-off, despite the fact that I reckon one of the best battles in any of the Might and Magic games is a Light Path party's initial assault on The Pit.

    It was also when playing MM7 that I came to the conclusion that no character was worth having in any of my parties if it could not grandmaster a combat skill or a magic skill in a school that includes combat spells, with a very strong preference that it should be a mel้e combat skill or a mirrored path magic. There is a constant need for combat from start to finish, and there is a big gap between mastery of a skill and grandmastery. This is why the druid, once he/she has prepared the black potions, is about as much use as an ashtray on a motor-bike. His/her capabilities in his/her other skills just don't cut the mustard. Similarly, I haven't a lot of time for rangers; the only combat skill they can GM is bow, which is the least useful of the combat skills to GM, although it is arguably the most useful weapon class for the whole party to have.





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My problem at the moment with grandmastery is perhaps trivial but
02/22/2019, 08:01:27

    Liliths Slave writes:

    my only character that can grandmaster alchemy is also my only character that can grandmaster merchant but she only has inventory room for EITHER potions and potion bottles OR things to sell. It brought to mind all my iffing on the whole subject of grandmastery. Re druids - I never use them because it is just too many skills to work up to high levels. I can see why they did it this way - M&M is as much about problem solving as fighting but I think it can be too complex to be fun. MM6 is the best simply because it is the simplest and most fun.




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I should have added to my earlier comment . . .
02/25/2019, 06:19:32

    Peter2 writes:

    . . . that one of the things I did like about MM7 was that once you had got through to Nighon and had a fully active Town Portal spell, you could always find shops and a Training Centre open, no matter whether it was day or night.




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Night shops (Also, kinda spoilerish)
02/27/2019, 08:14:39

    Eric B writes:

    Nighon, Deyja, and The Pit all have shops open 1800-0600. One thing that I like about MM7. Also, the story line is quite interesting, though some of those "Basic" promotion quests can be quite a nightmare!




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Agreed – I just found the shops in Nighon more convenient
03/01/2019, 04:05:18

    Peter2 writes:

    IIRC, they are closer to where Town Portal drops your party. I seem to remember finding the ones in The Pit less convenient for some reason that I cannot bring to mind just now. Isn't one (or two?) of the shops off in another zone somewhere? And I don't recall Deyja having a full set of shops.




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Shops
03/01/2019, 18:04:27

    Eric B writes:

    You're correct about the Pit. Seems like the Alchemist and Magic Shops, as well as Town Hall and the Guilds, are in another section. Town Portal drops you outside the Tavern there, but to get to the Weapon and Armor Smiths, you have to jump over the fire chasm thing to get to the walkway over there. The Bank is toward the back, as is the Training Hall. Though, you can go around the Tavern and shortcut through the wall behind the Tavern, IIRC. I think the Temple is also near Town Hall.

    As for Deyja, the only shops there are the Magic and a couple of guilds, as well as the Temple. Tavern and Stables kind of a hike away. Also, Town Portal doesn't drop you anywhere there --- unless you have Lloyd's Beacon, you have to Town Portal to the Pit, then go through the Hall Of the Pit and head outside.

    I can't believe I remembered all that; it's been a LONG time since I've played MM7!





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You remembered more than I did
03/02/2019, 06:45:06

    Peter2 writes:

    I would have had to go back to my files to have come up with that information. But then, MM7 was a great disappointment to me after the fun I had with MM6. I only ever played it 3 times, once with a Light Path party, once with a Dark Path party to enable me to do the quests specific to the Dark path, and once withe a Dark Path party including a druid to see what the familiar could do – I didn't finish that last game.

    I still need to install and play BDJ's mod of MM7, which appeared to me to be a better option, but I'm not sure it will run under the Win10 ops system on my new computer. And I'm a bit busy at the moment . . .





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I have no beef with MM7
02/22/2019, 17:58:03

    RubiconIII writes:

    I love MM7 just as much as MM6. Were it not for the fact, that I played MM6 before MM7, I might just have said that MM7 is slightly better. I have very good memories from playing MM6 the first time, so I can't help but getting quite a bit nostalgic.
    I finished MM6 the first time in what must have been around autumn 1999 without any online help/guiding - I was introduced to the game by a room mate of my big brother - prior to that I had played H3 in hotseat mode every time my brother and I spent time together at his place - it really brought me much closer to him. (We are seven years apart.) Mid '99 I got my first real computer (the one that I had before that could only be used for school work (WordPerfect) or antique dos games run from disks (Battle Chess)).
    I can clearly remember, how I played MM6 almost non-stop in my dorm room after that. While playing the game I learnt that MM7 had been released, so I knew that my endgame would be another game of almost the same proportions - oh joy, oh joy!
    And I did not feel the least bit dissatisfied - I felt it was a nice touch to have the game make you choose side more than once. In MM6 it might seem a bit strange that a saintly team is able to cast Armageddon or a notorious team is able to cast Divine Intervention.

    What I really like about MM7 over MM6 are the facts:
    - That guards actually guard places - cities and castles. That they can be friendly one moment and then a moment after be hostile - I have had lots of fun with that.
    - That the music is so atmospheric and emotional - I really love the Deyja theme. Yes, the music was also great in MM6, but in a slightly different way. Same thing with music in Heroes - I really like the music from H3, but somehow I like the music from H5 better. On a side note to that, I ought to mention, that EverQuest also contains some great themes of Rob King & Paul Romero, that anyone if slightly interested in their works should try to acquire. I haven't played EQ, but the musical score seems great - there is only a few recycled tracks in EQ compared to the realm of MM.
    - That crappy items actually look like crap. In MM6 items were so polished it made even crappy items look great. It makes the journey from wimp/poor to overpowered/rich very visual.
    - That it introduces the game of ArcoMage inside taverns. A nice break in a busy streak of killing and adventuring.
    - That you got to choose from different races when setting up your party.
    - That the characters are much more talkative for better or worse. It makes them much more alive and fun to play with.
    - That it was tough work reaching both Nighon and Eofol. I like a good challenge and the least bit of shortcuts being present.
    - That the skill Alchemy got restricted and reworked, so that it improved its potency according to the progress of the party. Being able to make black potions that allowed for an easy HP or SP refill of hundreds of points - something that you really couldn't find/buy at stores.

    Of course I dislike:
    - That you couldn't return to Emerald Island. Or get to Vori or Krewlod for that matter.
    - That the overall smaller dungeons made the game shorter.
    - That I feel less inclined to play with a Ranger, Theif or Monk because of their shortcomings. They can spice up a team one at a time, but I'd never take on all three at the same time in any combination with the rest of the classes.
    - That spells look like fireworks instead of lethal spells.





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It does have a lot going for it once it gets going
02/23/2019, 06:34:13

    Liliths Slave writes:

    and I liked the fact that it had many of the monsters from Heroes 3. At the moment I am frustrated because I can't get Master Water magic before promotion and worse, I can't get expert disarm trap before promotion. It's still hard to kill things and we haven't even finished the barrows quests yet. I almost feel like giving up and installing MM6 instead.




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Focus on what you have and where you are should be your primary concern.
02/23/2019, 16:37:44

    RubiconIII writes:

    I know the feeling, that you have but if you think too much of where you want to be and what to get, you'll stress the game and a tough game can't be rushed.

    I always lower my expectations about my progress speed in MM7 as there aren't that many shortcuts available. I try to keep my fighting/exploring inbetween 9 am and 5 pm (leaving some time for shopping as well as getting back to a city) - you might as well train one or two levels whenever you can - preferably each day - it saves time (actually 9 hours) every time, if you time it right. Thus you'll slowly get better. Also you won't likely miss out on any timed quests.
    I know it feels easier to train many levels at once like in MM6 and getting lots of skill points to distribute at the same time makes levelling up skills easier to manage.

    * And a correction to my post earlier - the great HP/SP potions are not black potions like in MM6, they are actually white potions in MM7, which of course makes them easier to reach. I haven't travelled with a Druid in all of my journeys in Erathia so it makes sense now.





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Furthermore
02/24/2019, 03:08:52

    RubiconIII writes:

    I normally postpone doing the Barrow Downs and the Barrows till I feel strong enough to do them without too much pain. The Barrows shouldn't be done right after clearing your Castle and the surroundings, which might be a common mistake. The Barrows will be too much to handle at this point - the various undead can sometimes swarm you where there is little room for retreating. It's better to deal with stuff in Erathia like the Sewers and the Bandit's Cave. I would also deal with stuff in Tularea incl. the Caves. Also I hope you did the White Cliff Cave after dealing with the Goblins in Harmondale.

    If disarm fails all the time in an area like Stone City or really anywhere, just ignore the chests/cabinets while clearing a dungeon for monsters. Then afterwards come back with a Burglar NPC who is free for hire and swoop around opening all chests - just don't grab the gold till you've dismissed him after job well done. I use this trick whenever my disarm skill is too low.





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Nice trick with the burglar
02/24/2019, 05:01:39

    Liliths Slave writes:

    I suppose you just have to think things through differently with MM7. I've done the initiate quest in the barrows but haven't got any further. My archer is now a warrior mage but still needs further promotion before experting in disarm trap. I am finishing the haunted mansion then it's back to the sewers. Thank you.




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Forgot to add, money is really good now
02/24/2019, 11:50:48

    Liliths Slave writes:





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You didn't believe the Burglar when he said he was free to hire, did you?
02/25/2019, 06:16:06

    Peter2 writes:

    If I were you, I would do some calculations on your cash flow. Try comparing the amount that your cash has actually gone up with what the game said you had received.

    He's not called a Burglar for nothing!





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I accidently pressed the space bar in Steadwick and guess what?
02/25/2019, 11:15:01

    Lilths Slave writes:

    I found myself talking to a locksmith, so I hired her.




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That will give almost as big a boost to the archer's Disarm skill as the burglar would
02/25/2019, 11:38:10

    Peter2 writes:





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Of course he steals, but only if you grab the coins when he's present
02/25/2019, 12:31:22

    RubiconIII writes:

    He only wants to get some practice - then let him have his practice and be done with him.
    The trick comes with the hassle that you have to visit each chest two times (three times, if you count the moment you saw and ignored it while fighting), but the very last one, when you handily dismis him. (He will yell he didn't do nothing and you'll give him right - you don't always need to have a reason at hand to let an NPC go.)
    It might not be everyone's cup of tea to do it like that, but it is an easy solution to an annoying problem.
    Costs you nothing but time!
    Having a locksmith along permanently will cost you - though she will be cheaper than keeping the burglar of course - not sure what his percentage actually is or if it's random.




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I'm on the library's computer right now so I don't have access but
02/26/2019, 07:45:33

    Liliths Slave writes:

    I seem to recall the locksmith asks for just three percent, which with the money we are making now, is nothing.

    I have now found the Evenmorn schedule but I don't have a clue who to take it to. My cleric could do with her promotion.





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If you want me to tell you, open this message and Select the text between the *Highlights*
02/26/2019, 11:37:26

    Peter2 writes:

    You take the Evenmorn schedule to . . .

    *Highlights on*
    . . . Daedalus Falk in Deyja
    *Highlights off*

    for the Cleric to Priest promotion





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Thanks. Been trying to avoid Deyja until necessary.
02/26/2019, 18:41:55

    Lilths Slave writes:

    That'll teach me not to be adventurous! They all have their first promotions now and the paladin is now a hero.

    BTW, that was clever with the text





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Did I get that right?
02/27/2019, 05:04:56

    Liliths Slave writes:

    I think I meant "that'll teach me to not be adventurous." Aargh! I think I've lived in Sweden too long - I'm forgetting my english.




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It's always tricky dealing with double negatives.
02/27/2019, 06:02:55

    Peter2 writes:

    I heard a story once about a lecturer in English working at an American Uiversity, who was dealing with this. He said there were some languages such as English, where a second negative cancelled out the first, and other languages such as Russian, where the second negative reinforced the first, but there were no languages where a second positive cancelled out the first. At this point, a student's voice from the back of the lecture theatre was heard to remark "Yeah, right."




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Aaargh!
02/27/2019, 06:51:15

    Liliths Slave writes:

    To explain once more - "That'll teach me not to be unadventurous!" Every time I read each explanation, it looks wrong so this one will have to be the last. I hope it clears things up.




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Deyja (Spoilerish)
02/27/2019, 08:42:07

    Eric B writes:

    I really hate dealing with Deyja early on; not only the zombies and harpies, but also the rugged terrain to get from the stables (And tavern) up to town.

    Though, one thing I prefer about the MM7 harpies is they can't cast Mass Curse and curse your entire party from FAR away, unlike MM6. For that reason, Frozen Highlands (And Mire Of the Damned) are a royal pain for me in MM6.

    It's a slow go in Deyja; you almost need Fly to get around there.





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My mother tongue of Czech is a bit tricky with respect to this, too...
02/27/2019, 15:53:30

    Ramillies writes:

    In a negative sentence, you use negative pronouns and adverbs, too. But those don't cancel out, nor do they add in any way . So you get things like:

    I don't know anything => Nic nevํm (lit. I don't know nothing)


    Nobody has ever done this yet => Nikdo to ještě nikdy neudělal (lit.: nobody hasn't never done this yet)


    I've never did anything wrong to anyone => Nikdy jsem nikomu neudělal nic špatn้ho. (lit. I haven't never done nothing wrong to no one.).

    (It's probably the same way in Russian. The Slavonic languages can be a bit tricky... )





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Communication and language
02/28/2019, 06:47:24

    Peter2 writes:

    I was present at the 2nd International Radiation Research Congress in 1962, and one evening I had a fascinating discussion with one of the translators who were working there at the time. Nobody knew what nationality this guy was (the majority opinion was Greek, but nobody was sure), but I was assured that he spoke all the major European languages flawlessly, and a host of others with a skill that ranged from very good to passable.

    He said that English was the easiest language that he knew in which to communicate (i.e. exchange basic information) effectively and among the most difficult to speak really well. In his opinion, one of the bigger stumbling blocks was its use of phrasal verbs (i.e. a verb closely followed by at least one preposition &/or adverb). These form a semantic unit whose meaning cannot usually be deduced from the meaning of the individual words. For example, if you "look up to" someone, you respect him (or her) and consider him (or her) in some way superior; you do not mean that he/she is above you in the Earth's gravitational field by, say, standing on top of a ladder – the phrase you would use there would be to "look up at" him, and that is not a phrasal verb.

    And that's before you get on to pronunciation and spelling, and English's confusing custom of pronouncing the same group of letters differently depending on the word they are in. For example, I know of 8 ways of pronouncing the letters "ough": e.g.
    though (as in "so"),
    through (as in "boo"),
    thought (as in "sort"),
    thorough (as in "the"),
    rough (as in "stuff"),
    cough (as in "toff"),
    bough (as in "cow"), and finally
    hiccough (as in "sup"),
    and there may be one or two more, although I cannot think of them at the moment.





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Correction – in the post above, for "translator" please read "interpreter"
02/28/2019, 07:02:47

    Peter2 writes:





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That's so true. I absolutely agree with English being hard to use correctly.
02/28/2019, 16:32:24

    Ramillies writes:

    The phrasal verbs are a bit of pain. My favorite ones are the ones with "look" (look up, look into, look out, look forward to, look after, look for and I surely forgot a couple), and the ones with "put" (put on vs. put off, put down vs. put up (with), put out). I can't put up with people who tell me that English is easy and I use these against them liberally .

    And the pronunciation is just awful. When reading/writing, I can at least use the monumental Webster dictionary on the shelf next to me. But when speaking, I can't. Nobody knows how many times I mess up something in speaking...





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"not to" is the way to go, I would say... so you got it right the first time, actually.
02/27/2019, 15:54:37

    Ramillies writes:





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Music
02/27/2019, 08:28:52

    Eric B writes:

    For me, the music in the two made the games for me.

    I'd first become acquainted with MM6 back in 1998; my mom had played the previous games (Swords Of Xeen, etc.) and MM6 had just come out. Even though I'd never taken an interest in the previous releases, she suggested that I give MM6 a shot, as I was heavy into Microsoft Flight Simulator. (She mentioned that it was a first-person RPG, which she likened to FS.) I got home one morning (Worked third shift) and it was my Friday, so I loaded it up and said "What the heck."

    Next thing I knew, it was about ten hours later; she returned from work, and I had slain hundreds of goblins in New Sorpigal, as well as fallen in love with the soundtrack. I'd also inadvertently found a quest item that she'd been racking her brain over, so in return for showing me where to return the item, I showed her where to find it.

    Three tunes from MM6 that are my favorites: the main New Sorpigal tune, and also the one called "Further Exploring the Temple Of Baa." I also liked the title track, which plays when you first open the game. (It also plays in Mire Of the Damned...and it's also played outside everywhere from 2100-0000)

    MM7, my favorite tunes are the ones played in Harmondale City, and also that one played in the Temple Of the Moon.

    Twenty-plus years, and those two games are still as much fun as the first time I played them. Sure, the graphics are quite dated, but the story lines suck me in EVERY time; perfect way to blow off a rainy or snowy afternoon!





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Thanks for that reminiscence. I'm sure we can all relate.
02/27/2019, 22:50:10

    Bones writes:





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I love the MM6 music too
02/28/2019, 04:35:15

    Liliths Slave writes:

    I'm going to miss it, not being able to play from disk The monastery on the Bootleg Bay island plays an adaptation of my favourite classical piece - Albinoni's Adagio For Strings, but my favourite piece is Freehaven. After a hard fight, coming out of the dungeon battered and bruised, this is exactly what you need to hear; something both comforting and gently encouraging. First thing in the morning, hearing it makes me want to take the day off to do some shopping!




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If you're using Grayface patch you can set up Music folder, rip music files and have music play in game...
02/28/2019, 16:26:45

    ragwort writes:





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Ragwort - thank you. That's worth knowing
03/01/2019, 05:40:31

    Liliths Slave writes:





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My most favorite track is the one that you hear in Frozen Highlands and Kriegspire...
02/28/2019, 17:41:22

    Ramillies writes:

    (Albinoni's Adagio is also very nice. The only problem is that most historians agree that he didn't write it )

    The other of my favorite tracks is the one that you can hear in New Sorpigal. And also the one that plays in Sweet Water. And the one from Hive (I actually switched this track around with the VARN one to get it played more.) ... And the others too





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More thoughts on the MM6 soundtrack
02/28/2019, 22:57:26

    Eric B writes:

    Adagio is one of the ones I'd mentioned; I've seen it titled on Youtube as "Further Exploring the Temple Of Baa," which is where I got that title from. It starts quite similar to Bach's Toccata. That bell tolling in that and the cello really made that song. I dare say that one is my favorite.

    I'd neglected to mention the one from Frozen Highlands and Kreigspire, but that is another track that I loved hearing.

    I've found that in New Sorpigal, it seems to have three different tracks, and that it picks one randomly when you arrive there. The one I like is on Youtube, titled as "New Sorpigal Theme."

    It's obvious that the people from NWC took great pride in their work. That MM6 and MM7 are still quite fun now, twenty-plus years after their releases, speaks volumes.





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NWC definitely took pride in their work
03/01/2019, 05:38:34

    Liliths Slave writes:

    I know I'm a bit harsh on MM7 but it's easy to forget the amount of hard work that goes into making something like this and I'm impressed with the rapport between NWC and MM fans as well. It seems more like a community than a company and I have more appreciation for them than I let on. I also think it's fun exploring their offices




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NWC Dungeon
03/01/2019, 18:03:24

    Eric B writes:

    I usually don't go to NWC's offices until MUCH, MUCH later; once I visit Dragonsand. Usually by then, NWC Offices are more of an afterthought.

    One thing of interest is the peasants there. Scroll the mouse cursor over them, and it gives names for each one of them. Obviously their way of giving a nod to everyone who worked there. Unfortunately, you can't speak to any of them, but it was still a nice gesture anyway.





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You're right. Albinoni might not have written it but
03/01/2019, 05:57:21

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PLEASE IGNORE THE LINK IN THE ABOVE POST
03/01/2019, 05:59:53

    Liliths Slave writes:

    I don't know why it is misbehaving.




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works ok, if you shave off the excess 'http' part
03/01/2019, 11:11:38

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Oops! :o
03/01/2019, 18:47:09

    Lilths Slave writes:





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Yeah – that caught me out as well, the first time I tried to use it
03/02/2019, 06:47:59

    Peter2 writes:





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I know. You can't be ever sure .
03/03/2019, 01:34:41

    Ramillies writes:

    By the way, this board can't handle HTTPS links, so if your link starts with "https://", it will still prepend http:// to it.

    (Also you were correct to note that the "Further Exploring the Temple of Baa" starts with something Bach-like. Indeed it's the opening figure of the Toccata in D minor that everyone knows, followed by the Adagio.)





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You're right, it does start with Toccata
03/05/2019, 04:38:05

    Liliths Slave writes:

    It's been so long since I played MM6 that I completely forgot. I may load it up soon as I have been putting MM7 off. I really don't want to have to do the walls of mist! I may even end up giving my copy of MM7 to a charity shop as I find much of it too difficult to be fun.




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No, darn it - I'll give it a go.
03/06/2019, 07:20:14

    Liliths Slave writes:

    As far as I remember, everything gets easier after this and the priest will be able to grandmaster body magic and cast protection from magic at grandmaster level making it easier to search the maze. I'm actually now looking forward to finishing the game.




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